[ale] Linux alternative recommendation ?

Courtney Thomas courtneycthomas at bellsouth.net
Mon Oct 24 15:20:10 EDT 2011


Rich,

If airport scanners can fry USB drives, then I'm out on that choice.

What the heck is an LPS (DoD-SPI) ?

Thanks,
C.Thomas

On 10/24/2011 2:18 PM, Rich Faulkner wrote:
> Mucho $$ yes, but an option.  The carrier that I have can swing both 
> ways:  eSATA or USB.  Bottlenecks aside it gives flexibility when you 
> can get it (and I like flexibility).  Build a multi-boot system there 
> and viola.  My first choice is USB stick though.  Low tech, easy to 
> carry and replace.  Just watch them going through airport security 
> scanners.  I've had a few fried by their equipment in repeated scans.  
> I'm starting to carry LPS (DoD-SPI) with me as a back-up.........R
>
>
> On Mon, 2011-10-24 at 13:36 -0400, Ron Frazier wrote:
>> Rich,
>>
>> You have a point there.  Actually, you don't even need a drive 
>> carrier, per se.  A 2.5" SATA SSD would fit in the same enclosure as 
>> a 2.5" SATA HDD would.  Pros and cons for external SSD would be the 
>> same as for memory stick, except for the size and weight factors.  
>> Mucho dollars!
>>
>> Ron
>>
>> On 10/24/2011 11:07 AM, Rich Faulkner wrote:
>>> One more possibility for portable media (not necessarily for this 
>>> application but it could be...)
>>>
>>> SSD in portable drive carrier.  I just bought a drive carrier that 
>>> accepts a SSD like an old 8-track tape (aging myself here) and 
>>> allows insertion into a 3-1/2 drive bay, external eSATA connection 
>>> or USB attachment.  This was a Fry's find and was under $15.  I can 
>>> supply part number and manufacturer once I get home if desired....
>>>
>>> Yeah, it's spendy but should hold-up well for a portable solution, 
>>> light weight and not so prone to mechanical damage as a HDD.
>>>
>>> Just offering this as Ron had kinda missed SSD....RinL
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, 2011-10-24 at 10:53 -0400, Ron Frazier wrote:
>>>> Courtney,
>>>>
>>>> Here's my opinion of the pros and cons of HDD versus Flash (memory
>>>> stick).  I don't know anything about (old style) ZIP drives, but I think
>>>> they're pretty much obsolete.  I'm not sure if that's what you meant.
>>>>
>>>> HDD Pros:
>>>>
>>>>             lots of storage
>>>>             cheap price
>>>>             could possibly convert to using the drive internally in the
>>>> laptop
>>>>             could use the drive later to backup your PC
>>>>             more likely to be able to dual boot / multi boot
>>>>
>>>> HDD Cons:
>>>>
>>>>             subject to mechanical damage (don't smack or drop it)
>>>>             usually requires 2 USB ports
>>>>             heavier
>>>>             more bulky
>>>>             requires more power (reduces battery run time)
>>>>             slower (caveat - as mentioned in my other post, the USB speed
>>>> may be the limiting factor)
>>>>
>>>> Flash (memory stick) Pros:
>>>>
>>>>             small
>>>>             light
>>>>             requires only one USB port
>>>>             draws less power (increases battery run time)
>>>>             does not require an enclosure
>>>>             faster (subject to limits of USB speed)
>>>>
>>>> Flash (memory stick) Cons:
>>>>
>>>>             less storage space
>>>>             more money per GB
>>>>             harder to dual boot / multi boot (because of smaller storage
>>>> capacity)
>>>>             easier to lose or misplace
>>>>             long term longevity is questionable (in my opinion)
>>>>             subject to electronic damage (static)
>>>>                  (Have you ever walked across a carpet in the winter,
>>>> touched a doorknob, and gotten a spark on your finger?)
>>>>                  (If you ever do something that sparks to the memory
>>>> stick, even if you don't know it, it will probably destroy it.)
>>>>                  (I would say the memory stick is less likely to incur
>>>> damage while traveling than the HDD.)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Regarding CD's, if you install your OS to the external HDD, you can boot
>>>> directly from it if your PC has the capability to boot from USB.  You
>>>> don't need a CD.  Also, another option is to put multiple operating
>>>> systems on your internal HDD.  This is what I do.  All my PC's can dual
>>>> boot between Linux and Windows.  You could potentially boot between
>>>> multiple versions of Linux as well.
>>>>
>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>
>>>> Ron
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 10/24/2011 3:40 AM, Courtney Thomas wrote:
>>>> >  Ron,
>>>> >
>>>> >  Thank you for all the important concerns unconsidered by me at this
>>>> >  point, but it sounds like... I might be better advised to use live CD
>>>> >  distros with a portable HD (rather than zip drives) for reliability and
>>>> >  space.
>>>> >
>>>> >  If true, what am I giving up if going that route ?  Speed ?
>>>> >
>>>> >  Gratefully,
>>>> >
>>>> >  Courtney
>>>> >
>>>> >  On 10/23/2011 12:37 PM, Ron Frazier wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >>  Courtney,
>>>> >>
>>>> >>  What I'm discussing relates to using a memory stick for your purpose.
>>>> >>  Most of it won't apply if using a HDD for storage.  I will freely admit
>>>> >>  to not being an expert in booting from a flash memory stick.  However,
>>>> >>  here are some things to think about.  You probably want a high speed
>>>> >>  memory stick.  They have different class numbers.  Higher is better, and
>>>> >>  they don't always say on the label.  I don't have the numbers
>>>> >>  memorized.  Get something of high quality.  Pony up a few extra dollars
>>>> >>  for something with a 5 year warranty, rather than a 1 year.  (That would
>>>> >>  apply to a HDD too.)  The device should have built in wear leveling, and
>>>> >>  should have SLC memory circuits which have greater longevity.  This is
>>>> >>  also not usually on the label.  Flash memory cells can only be written a
>>>> >>  certain number of times before they degrade.  When I was teaching at a
>>>> >>  technical college, I always told the students not to rely on a memory
>>>> >>  stick for permanent storage.  They can flake out sometimes.  The other
>>>> >>  thread I had posted about my relative wanting to recover photos is an
>>>> >>  example.  Obviously, storing an OS on the thing is a more permanent
>>>> >>  application, and you don't want any bits suddenly going missing.  I
>>>> >>  would back up the entire memory stick from one to another periodically,
>>>> >>  which would get the OS as well as all your data.  (This also would apply
>>>> >>  to a HDD.)
>>>> >>
>>>> >>  Here are a few items the Linux gurus here (I'm not one) may wish to
>>>> >>  address.  You may not want a swap partition or file, since a swap area
>>>> >>  will pound the memory stick very hard if the system get's low on
>>>> >>  resources.  There are pros and cons either way.  Without swap, if you
>>>> >>  boot a PC with low RAM, and run too many things, the OS may crash.
>>>> >>  Also, you may wish to disable write caching to reduce the likelihood of
>>>> >>  damaging the OS if the memory stick is removed without safely ejecting
>>>> >>  it.  The USB port may automatically disable write caching, I don't know
>>>> >>  about that.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>  In the past, I've heard of people running Linux on a memory stick and
>>>> >>  burning out the stick within a few months.  That was a while back, so
>>>> >>  I'm not sure how the modern technology affects these issues.  Makers of
>>>> >>  memory sticks, and SSD's, now say cell wear is not a problem.  That may
>>>> >>  or may not be true, but I'm not totally convinced.  While I would like
>>>> >>  to have an SSD, I'm not yet convinced that they can last 5 - 15 years,
>>>> >>  the way a properly maintained and not mechanically damaged HDD can.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>  Sincerely,
>>>> >>
>>>> >>  Ron
>>>> >>
>>>> >>  On 10/23/2011 11:42 AM, D. Marshall Lemcoe Jr. wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >>>  There are some very fine 32GB and 64GB in the sub-$100 price range and
>>>> >>>  anything will suit a live-key. if you're going to be traveling, the
>>>> >>>  USB flash drive will be your better bet because there is no chance of
>>>> >>>  it breaking like a regular HDD might.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>  As for the distribution, I would recommend something that doesn't take
>>>> >>>  a lot of setup and configuration to use, like Ubuntu or Fedora.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>  On Sun, Oct 23, 2011 at 10:17 AM, Jim Kinney<jim.kinney at gmail.com  <mailto:jim.kinney at gmail.com>>     wrote:
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>>  With the cost of removable media what it is, it's feasable to have several
>>>> >>>>  distros on a 250GB drive all sharing a /home and selectable at boot from
>>>> >>>>  grub.
>>>> >>>>  Or carry a selection of live CD/DVD media and a thumb drive for storage.
>>>> >>>>  This is easier unless the laptop has no cd drive. Older laptops may not be
>>>> >>>>  able to boot from usb.
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>  On Oct 23, 2011 9:41 AM, "Richard Faulkner"<rfaulkner at 34thprs.org  <mailto:rfaulkner at 34thprs.org>>     wrote:
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>>  What is the most important feature of the OS?  Security?  Media support?
>>>> >>>>>  Something basic or something w/everything not nailed down?
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>>  -----Original Message-----
>>>> >>>>>  From: Richard Bronosky<Richard at Bronosky.com  <mailto:Richard at Bronosky.com>>
>>>> >>>>>  Reply-to: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts<ale at ale.org  <mailto:ale at ale.org>>
>>>> >>>>>  To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts<ale at ale.org  <mailto:ale at ale.org>>
>>>> >>>>>  Subject: Re: [ale] Linux alternative recommendation ?
>>>> >>>>>  Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2011 09:02:53 -0400
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>>  How much storage do you need? Could a flash drive work? 32G or 64G?
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>>  On Oct 23, 2011 8:27 AM, "Courtney Thomas"<courtneycthomas at bellsouth.net  <mailto:courtneycthomas at bellsouth.net>>
>>>> >>>>>  wrote:
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>>  I'd like to carry a portable Linux USB HD installation for traveling
>>>> >>>>>  with my laptop and would appreciate suggestions, not only for which
>>>> >>>>>  Linux flavor but also which drive.
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>>  Thanks,
>>>> >>>>>  C.Thomas
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>>
>> (PS - If you email me and don't get a quick response, you might want to
>> call on the phone.  I get about 300 emails per day from alternate energy
>> mailing lists and such.  I don't always see new messages very quickly.)
>>
>> Ron Frazier
>>
>> 770-205-9422 (O)   Leave a message.
>> linuxdude AT c3energy.com
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