[ale] New Mailing List initiatives for ALE

[aaron]

On Wednesday 27 September 2006 12:46, Byron A Jeff wrote:
> On Wed, Sep 27, 2006 at 12:31:54PM -0400, Mark Wright wrote:
> > I totally agree with Jim.  (Well the part about being funny is still  
> > being considered.)
> > 
> > I like the "fellowship" of like minded individuals here.  I think  
> > most people here are the kind of folks I would hang out with at  
> > work.  And the topics, even the immature, irrelevant ones would be  
> > the stuff of our face to face conversations too.  They might not last  
> > as long as they may be quelled with a few disapproving looks but this  
> > is email.  We (the faithful) may have to put up with people joining  
> > that will be unruly for a season but as Jim has pointed out there are  
> > ways of handling this.
> > 
> >   Changing to moderation will definitely be destructive.
> 
> Did I miss a part of the discussion? Quick recap:
> 
> A single list has too much "silly" traffic for some of the more busy and
> serious minded Linux users. This is driving them, and their expertise off.

An assumption not in evidence (contrary cases noted in my first response to 
this thread).

> Proposed solution is to split the list into two components, technical
> moderated and chat unmoderated. The moderated list would be for "serious
> technical" topics while the unmoderated chat list would be this current
> list.

I think most are in agreement that a good solution to the suggested complaints 
of excessive list traffic for some potential ALE email participants is to 
offer a technical list, e.g. [ale-tech]. Hopefully with an informal 
moderation that rarely needs anything beyond a reading of the [ale-tech] 
"stay on topic" rules.

> Note I'm not bothering with announce.

[ale-announce] would be a legitimate broadcast list as well for those who only 
want occasional notice of Linux. OSS and ALE related special events in the
Atlanta area.
 
> I'm unclear how this setup would destroy the sense of community here.

The setup proposed above would not.

Moderating, renaming, or otherwise reforming this primary [ale] list would do 
harm to the community under the excuse of solving a problem that does not 
exist. There are no weapons of mass distruction here and there never have 
been.

> The
> chat list would be this list. Since it's unmoderated, technical topics
> would be fair game. I cannot perceive what the change would be.

Denegrating the main community list as a "chat" list would be a disservice the 
principles of the OSS community that this group (and this list) have 
traditionally represented. This list has always been a technical list for the 
sharing of technical information; a very appropriately unrestricted one given 
the wide diversity of technical topics that have connections with Linux and 
OSS computing.

> Adding the second moderated list would attract some expertise that would
> otherwise avoid the ALE mailing lists altogether from what I read of the
> initial proposal.

Yes, an [ale-tech] list, as well as a few other special interest sub lists, 
could help expand both the resource base and service quality of the 
community. I know that I would be lurking on an [ale-tech] and learning 
everything I could from any of the posts that I could grep! 

The main hanging question seems to be how much moderation of special
interest lists like [ale-tech] would really be necessary,  since the tone of 
most responses to this thread suggest that moderation or alteration of the 
[ale] list is both unwelcome and basically unnecessary.

> The question is do we want to shun folks who want to participate but don't
> have the time to be bothered with social banter?

The phrasing is pretty absurd and about as far from the actual issue as you 
can travel within the Earth's gravity well.  If you want to see the issue as 
an either / or, however, then the query becomes:

In working to expand ALE to be welcoming for even more diverse special 
interests do we want to unnecessarily insult and alienate the vibrant, well 
established, friendly and diverse foundation community (by labelling their 
discourse as "chatter"), and discourage the new membership we are supposed to 
be inviting by gagging them with restrictive and unnecessary moderation.

> When I read the proposal I saw a split to generate flexibility, not just
> a set of restrictions that will kill the spirit of the list.

Disruption and denigration of the primary [ale] list was, unfortunately,
part of the initial proposal. I think it is obvious that we can fully achieve 
the worthy goals of Jerald's plan with a single small adjustment that 
eliminates disruptions, reduces effort and minimizes the need for any level 
of invasive moderation.

> I think that the moderators will have to take time to pay attention to
> the chat list and work on transferring topics that are relevant to the
> moderated list.

Adding lists while leaving the primary [ale] list as it is will also be a 
simpler, lower efforet solution for the list management volunteers.

> But overall I feel that if we can find ways to attract serious folks
> to the discussion at any level, that it's a plan that should at least
> get some consideration.

Indeed, and the plan has gotten and continues to get considerable 
consideration and refinement. Here's to an open development process!

peace
aaron

 
> BAJ