[ale] New Mailing List initiatives for ALE

[Mark Wright]

I'm sure I did miss some of the discussion.  I am now confused why we  
are discussing it.  If no changes are going to be made to this list.   
Create another list that is moderated, I am all for it.  I thought a  
change to this list was being discussed.




On Sep 27, 2006, at 12:46 PM, Byron A Jeff wrote:

> On Wed, Sep 27, 2006 at 12:31:54PM -0400, Mark Wright wrote:
>> I totally agree with Jim.  (Well the part about being funny is still
>> being considered.)
>>
>> I like the "fellowship" of like minded individuals here.  I think
>> most people here are the kind of folks I would hang out with at
>> work.  And the topics, even the immature, irrelevant ones would be
>> the stuff of our face to face conversations too.  They might not last
>> as long as they may be quelled with a few disapproving looks but this
>> is email.  We (the faithful) may have to put up with people joining
>> that will be unruly for a season but as Jim has pointed out there are
>> ways of handling this.
>>
>>   Changing to moderation will definitely be destructive.
>
> Did I miss a part of the discussion? Quick recap:
>
> A single list has too much "silly" traffic for some of the more  
> busy and
> serious minded Linux users. This is driving them, and their  
> expertise off.
>
> Proposed solution is to split the list into two components, technical
> moderated and chat unmoderated. The moderated list would be for  
> "serious
> technical" topics while the unmoderated chat list would be this  
> current list.
> Note I'm not bothering with announce.
>
> I'm unclear how this setup would destroy the sense of community  
> here. The
> chat list would be this list. Since it's unmoderated, technical topics
> would be fair game. I cannot perceive what the change would be.
>
> Adding the second moderated list would attract some expertise that  
> would
> otherwise avoid the ALE mailing lists altogether from what I read  
> of the
> initial proposal.
>
> The question is do we want to shun folks who want to participate  
> but don't
> have the time to be bothered with social banter?
>
> When I read the proposal I saw a split to generate flexibility, not  
> just
> a set of restrictions that will kill the spirit of the list.
>
> I think that the moderators will have to take time to pay attention to
> the chat list and work on transferring topics that are relevant to the
> moderated list.
>
> But overall I feel that if we can find ways to attract serious folks
> to the discussion at any level, that it's a plan that should at least
> get some consideration.
>
> BAJ
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sep 27, 2006, at 10:02 AM, James P. Kinney III wrote:
>>
>>>>
>>>> I think the thing I find most bothersome of late is the back and
>>>> forth
>>>> of the one liners posters have posted dragging a particular thread
>>>> totally off topic and simply wasting bandwidth.
>>>>
>>>> Let's face it folks, none of us are as funny as we think we are.
>>>
>>> I am definitely funnier than all of you put together :)
>>>
>>> As far as any degree of moderation goes, I don't think that any  
>>> one of
>>> us is qualified to decide what _I_ get to read or not read other  
>>> than
>>> me. I suspect that everyone, even the loudest tantrum tossers, on  
>>> the
>>> list shares that sentiment.
>>>
>>> If someone has issues with a thread, use the delete key, add a BS
>>> filter, etc.
>>>
>>> If someone has issues with the message quantity, subscribe to the
>>> digest
>>> version.
>>>
>>> If someone has issues with bandwidth, get a better ISP.
>>>
>>> If someone has a problem with spending too much time on the list,
>>> get a
>>> life!
>>>
>>> I am quite certain I have been on the ALE list since around 1996 or
>>> so.
>>> For what ever it is worth, _my_ opinion has not been consulted off
>>> list
>>> about any type of proposed change to the format.
>>>
>>> Not that I have any say so as there does appear to be some
>>> semblance of
>>> structure rising up from the deep, vi/emacs-edited, man pages  
>>> history
>>> past of ALE and the zombies of Atlanta Linux Showcase (Damn, I miss
>>> that! Too bad Penguinfest can't get off the ground). If the  
>>> really old
>>> crusty farts want to make some changes, they can. No matter what is
>>> done
>>> or not done, it will affect the membership of the group.
>>>
>>> Several years ago (during the Clinton election #2, I believe) a
>>> particularly nasty thread erupted into a flame war. Several people
>>> were
>>> on the thread trying to calm down some hot heads. Some people, I
>>> was one
>>> of them, contacted the hot heads off the list and did the escalating
>>> requests to calm down, then please stop posting, then stop posting ,
>>> then finally, GET OFF THE LIST AND GO AWAY.
>>>
>>> Yes, I participated in an action similar to the tar and feather and
>>> ride
>>> 'em out of town on a rail, virtual style. It's not an event I am
>>> particularly proud of. But it serves as example of what community  
>>> can
>>> do. (NOTE: This public expose of hostilities lasted for MANY, MANY
>>> DAYS
>>> and was rather abusive and vulgar. Nothing like the mindless  
>>> bantering
>>> and blathering seen recently.)
>>>
>>> It worked. A particular individual left and the hen house that is  
>>> ale
>>> settled back down to its normal egg laying and general brooding.
>>>
>>> I like the proposed additional lists. Specifically a list  
>>> dedicated to
>>> tech stuff would be nice. But at the same time, why bother? Someone
>>> will
>>> goof and post a smarta$$ remark to the wrong list and feathers will
>>> get
>>> ruffled. At this point I think that there is NO solution that is
>>> adequate short of personal responsibility being ingrained into each
>>> author. A reminder to those who get an emotional wedgie quite often,
>>> this is a PUBLIC FORUM. Everything said here is available for all to
>>> see. Each authors reputation dribbles from their hot-headed  
>>> fingertips
>>> every time they hit the <send> button.
>>>
>>> I don't want to see _any_ of this change. The tech notes, the  
>>> blather,
>>> the jokes, the tips, the _community_ (warts and all). I would
>>> personally
>>> rather move from my house than have a neighbor or group of neighbors
>>> suddenly decide that they get to make the choice about who gets to
>>> associate with who and in what manner. That is quite contrary to the
>>> general philosophy of the operating system around which this  
>>> community
>>> has been formed.
>>>
>>> I appreciate the well-meaning efforts of the inner-circle who  
>>> decided
>>> that the neighborhood needed to be cleaned up. However, in my mind,
>>> the
>>> long term effect of adding controls to an existing community  
>>> structure
>>> will only serve to empower those with the rule making ability and to
>>> alienate the others.
>>>
>>> If the powers that be feel they must exercise their sovereign rights
>>> over the ALE domain and mailing list etiquette, they have the root
>>> passwords to do so. Please make the announcement at the onset so
>>> that I
>>> can unsubscribe.
>>>
>>> If enough people are knicker-twisted enough to want to generate a  
>>> NEW
>>> list with strict moderation controls, great. Problem solved. All the
>>> people whose tolerance level for a bit of off topic crap will  
>>> flood to
>>> sign up. Of course to keep it pristine, the inner-circle organizers
>>> will
>>> need to police the membership list keep out the undesirables.
>>>
>>> They won't see my name crossing the "request approval to join" list.
>>>
>>> I will not be subscribing to that list.
>>>
>>> I'm at home here.
>>>
>>> (fingertips bruised from key pounding...need more coffee...)
>>> -- 
>>> James P. Kinney III
>>> CEO & Director of Engineering
>>> Local Net Solutions,LLC
>>> 770-493-8244
>>> http://www.localnetsolutions.com
>>>
>>> GPG ID: 829C6CA7 James P. Kinney III (M.S. Physics)
>>> <jkinney at localnetsolutions.com>
>>> Fingerprint = 3C9E 6366 54FC A3FE BA4D 0659 6190 ADC3 829C 6CA7
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>>> Ale at ale.org
>>> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>>
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