[ale] OT: H1B

Mon Dec 16 16:39:23 EST 2002

One thing is for certain... one more terrorist attack on this country and *no* 
company will hire a non-US citizen from *any* country associated with 
terrorism. Period.

On Monday 16 December 2002 16:31, Jerry Z. Yu wrote:
> the H-1B regulations meant to keep Citizen first, foreigner second.
> However, it couldn't provide a clause practical enough to swap in citizens
> as soon as qualified citizens become available. The reason is, that
> the service provided by IT workers are not, fortunately or
> unfortunately, 100% commodities yet. H-1B IT workers, along with their US
> counterparts, actually accumulate knowledge of the particular
> business/company  (infrastructure, industry background, in-house API,
> corporate culture, etc.), thru training and experience. So, it's not
> feasible/reasonable/practical to ask the corporate America to swap
> in citizen worker to replace H-1B worker, on short notice of economic
> downturn.
>
> Y'all know how much efforts/time you need to bring someone new up to
> speed, not to mention that the incubent worker bee is tried and good,
> while you have to take chances with the newcomers. If I were the
> hiring manager, it'd be a strong de-motivator to me.
>
> <disclaimer>
> I am an H-1B worker.
> </disclaimer>
>
> On Mon, 16 Dec 2002, Geoffrey wrote:
>
> #Zyman, Andy wrote:
> #> Geoffrey,
> #> This is different issue you are talking about. And here i agree with
> you. #> But just saying that  visa holders has certain _advantages_ over
> the #> citizens, excuse my French, is a pure BS.
> #
> #I don't know if they do or not.  Bottom line for me is, I see too many
> #VERY GOOD technical U.S. Citizens out of work, and therefore think that
> #H1Bs should be stopped for until this problem is resolved.
> #
> #>
> #> I'm not following the "medical visas" question. But i found it
> interesting #> how hospitals ( let say hospitals ) reacted on the proposal
> to allow more #> foreign nurses to enter and work in the country.
> #
> #Again, if there are citizens who are capable of performing the function,
> #they should get the first shot.
> #
> #> AZ
> #>
> #>
> #>>-----Original Message-----
> #>>From: Geoffrey [mailto:esoteric at 3times25.net]
> #>>Sent: Monday, December 16, 2002 3:19 PM
> #>>To: ale at ale.org
> #>>Subject: Re: [ale] OT: H1B
> #>>
> #>>
> #>>Special treatment or not, there should be a better system to
> #>>for these
> #>>issues.  People from other countries should not be permitted to enter
> #>>this country and take a job with so many folks out of work.
> #>>
> #>>And, FYI, I am employed and actually hoping for an early retirement
> #>>package offer.
> #>>
> #>>
> #>>Zyman, Andy wrote:
> #>>
> #>>>Stephen,
> #>>>
> #>>>
> #>>>>However, I do agree that holders of H1B visas should not
> #>>
> #>>receive special
> #>>
> #>>>>treatment that not even American citizens receive.
> #>>>
> #>>>May i ask you what is the "special treatment" is ? Paying
> #>>
> #>>social insurance,
> #>>
> #>>>unemployment, medical etc. taxes and have 12 ( correct me
> #>>
> #>>please in number )
> #>>
> #>>>days to leave country in case he lost his job? Unable to
> #>>
> #>>provide services to
> #>>
> #>>>any other company just because you allowed to work only for
> #>>
> #>>the company who
> #>>
> #>>>holds your visa?
> #>>>
> #>>>Could you please put a list of the "special treatment"
> #>>
> #>>package from which
> #>>
> #>>>holder of H1b visa gain over the citizen/perm. resident?
> #>>>
> #>>>
> #>>>
> #>>>>-----Original Message-----
> #>>>>From: stephen at touset.dyndns.org [mailto:stephen at touset.dyndns.org]
> #>>>>Sent: Monday, December 16, 2002 10:31 AM
> #>>>>To: ale at ale.org
> #>>>>Subject: RE: [ale] OT: H1B
> #>>>>
> #>>>>
> #>>>>I have no problem with our Customs officials handing out
> #>>>>visas. We're not
> #>>>>going to stop any terrorist attacks by keeping others out of the
> #>>>>country--just like with gun control, they'll find a way
> #>>>>around it. We have
> #>>>>thousands of miles of unproteced borders that anyone could
> #>>>>cross, and we
> #>>>>have no way of preventing it.
> #>>>>However, I do agree that holders of H1B visas should not
> #>>>>receive special
> #>>>>treatment that not even American citizens receive. I don't
> #>>>>pay taxes so
> #>>>>that someone can have an easier time because of my work. I
> #>>>>pay taxes so
> #>>>>that politicians can have $150,000/yr salaries and gigantic
> #>>>>bureaucracies
> #>>>>can lose it, and damnit, I want to keep it that way. We have
> #>>>>far too many
> #>>>>people immigrating into this country to receive benefits like
> #>>>>welfare and
> #>>>>social security, contributing nothing in the process. The
> #>>
> #>>real problem
> #>>
> #>>>>here is not with the immigration itself, but with the
> #>>>>existence of such
> #>>>>opportunities. If we were to eliminate welfare, social
> #>>>>security, etc., all
> #>>>>across the board, more immigrants to the United States would
> #>>>>be here to
> #>>>>work and produce, instead of consume. Hell, our own citizens
> #>>>>would, too.
> #>>>>Stephen Touset
> #>>>>
> #>>>>
> #>>>>
> #>>>>>I agree 100%!!  Getting tired of Hotel Patel myself.  Want
> #>>>>
> #>>>>an english
> #>>>>
> #>>>>
> #>>>>>speaking and understanding person to talk with after being
> #>>>>
> #>>>>on the road
> #>>>>
> #>>>>
> #>>>>>for a long time especially if it is late.
> #>>>>>
> #>>>>>gj
> #>>>>>
> #>>>>>-----Original Message-----
> #>>>>>From: ale-admin at ale.org [mailto:ale-admin at ale.org]On Behalf
> #>>>>
> #>>>>Of Cougar
> #>>>>
> #>>>>
> #>>>>>Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2002 9:13 PM
> #>>>>>To: ale at ale.org
> #>>>>>Subject: Re: [ale] OT: H1B
> #>>>>>
> #>>>>>
> #>>>>>... and should they start a business, they get extremely
> #>>>>
> #>>>>low tax rates
> #>>>>
> #>>>>
> #>>>>>(unavailable to US CITIZENS) for TWO years, after which they are
> #>>>>>allowed to SELL their business to relatives back home and the whole
> #>>>>>process renews! Don't believe it? Just check out the
> #>>>>
> #>>>>ownership of 99%
> #>>>>
> #>>>>
> #>>>>>of the motels along our
> #>>>>>interstate system.  It's time we start voting AGAINST
> #>>>>
> #>>>>legislators who
> #>>>>
> #>>>>
> #>>>>>support
> #>>>>>this garbage! (or start taxing the aliens until THEY bleed
> #>>>>
> #>>>>instead of
> #>>>>
> #>>>>
> #>>>>>us.)
> #>>>>>
> #>>>>>Cougar
> #>>>>>
> #>>>>>
> #>>>>>On Sunday 15 December 2002 20:59, Robert Heaven wrote:
> #>>>>>
> #>>>>>
> #>>>>>>And, would you believe, the US government is giving these
> #>>>>
> #>>>>immigrants
> #>>>>
> #>>>>
> #>>>>>>low interest loans using OUR tax money to help them get
> #>>>>
> #>>>>set up in this
> #>>>>
> #>>>>
> #>>>>>>country.
> #>>>>>>
> #>>>>>>On Sun, 2002-12-15 at 14:19, George Johnson wrote:
> #>>>>>>
> #>>>>>>
> #>>>>>>>That is a FACT!!
> #>>>>>>>
> #>>>>>>>george johnson
> #>>>>>>>
> #>>>>>>>
> #>>>>>>>-----Original Message-----
> #>>>>>>>From: ale-admin at ale.org [mailto:ale-admin at ale.org]On Behalf Of
> #>>>>>>>Cougar Sent: Friday, December 13, 2002 4:39 PM
> #>>>>>>>To: ale at ale.org
> #>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [ale] OT: H1B
> #>>>>>>>
> #>>>>>>>
> #>>>>>>>We've *got* to stop handing out visas like they were
> #>>>>
> #>>>>'free coupons'.
> #>>>>
> #>>>>
> #>>>>>>>Period.
> #>>>>>>>
> #>>>>>>>Cougar
> #>>>>>>>
> #>>>>>>>On Friday 13 December 2002 16:14, Jordi S. Bunster wrote:
> #>>>>>>>
> #>>>>>>>
> #>>>>>>>>On Fri, 2002-12-13 at 16:00, Cougar wrote:
> #>>>>>>>>
> #>>>>>>>>
> #>>>>>>>>>And you can bet your last nickle that should a
> #>>>>
> #>>>>terrorist cyber
> #>>>>
> #>>>>
> #>>>>>attack
> #>>>>>
> #>>>>>
> #>>>>>>>>>happen, it will come from one of those H1-B visa
> #>>>>
> #>>>>holders! It's
> #>>>>
> #>>>>
> #>>>>>>>>>time for this garbage to come to a screeching halt.
> #>>>>>>>>
> #>>>>>>>>Like one would need to be inside the US to do that
> #>>>>
> #>>>>kind of thing?
> #>>>>
> #>>>>
> #>>>>>>>>Or with a real passport, for that matter?
> #>>>>>>>>
> #>>>>>>>>I think you underestimate what those suckers have done, and how
> #>>>>>
> #>>>>>airport
> #>>>>>
> #>>>>>
> #>>>>>>>>security/imigration failed at doing their job right.
> #>>>>>>>>
> #>>>>>>>>The US government has everything it needs to send back every
> #>>>>>>>>single immigrant in the country. It could even be done without
> #>>>>>>>>having
> #>>>>>
> #>>>>>problems
> #>>>>>
> #>>>>>
> #>>>>>>>>with the UN or similar groups. Do you have any ideas about why
> #>>>>>>>>they don't do it? D'you really think that would end
> #>>>>
> #>>>>your problems
> #>>>>
> #>>>>
> #>>>>>>>>with "terrorism" once and for all?
> #>>>>>>>>
> #>>>>>>>>Geez. My mother is a holder of an H1B. All the poor
> #>>>>
> #>>>>creature does
> #>>>>
> #>>>>
> #>>>>>>>>is consulting for an american company that sells
> #>>>>
> #>>>>clothes in south
> #>>>>
> #>>>>
> #>>>>>america.
> #>>>>>
> #>>>>>
> #>>>>>>>>Go figure.
> #>>>>>>>
> #>>>>>>>_______________________________________________
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> #>>>>>>>
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> #>>>>>>
> #>>>>>>_______________________________________________
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> #>>>>>
> #>>>>>
> #>>>>>_______________________________________________
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> #>>>>>
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> #>>>>
> #>>>>
> #>>>>
> #>>>>_______________________________________________
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> #>>>>
> #>>>
> #>>>_______________________________________________
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> #>>>Ale at ale.org
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> #>>>
> #>>>
> #>>
> #>>--
> #>>Until later: Geoffrey		esoteric at 3times25.net
> #>>
> #>>The latest, most widespread virus?  Microsoft end user agreement.
> #>>Think about it...
> #>>
> #>>_______________________________________________
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> #>>
> #>
> #> _______________________________________________
> #> Ale mailing list
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> #>
> #>
> #
> #--
> #Until later: Geoffrey		esoteric at 3times25.net
> #
> #The latest, most widespread virus?  Microsoft end user agreement.
> #Think about it...
> #
> #_______________________________________________
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> #
>
> Jerry Z. Yu				+1-404-487-8544 (O)
> systems engineer			z.yu at voicecom.com
> is support, voicecom, llc		www.voicecom.com
>
>
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