[ale] upgrading desktop

[Jim Kinney]

Nvidia is like Intel (expensive) and AMD is always the best bang for buck brand. In the high end science world of gpu number crunchers, Nvidia has a huge lead due to software adoption. CUDA is hugely used and useless on AMD Fire gpu. OpenCL is supposed to be more capable and cross platform. But the adoption rate is a tiny fraction. A huge stumbling block is no tools like TensorFlow or any of the other heavy hitters in machine learning.

The newest Nvidia gpu monsters are substantially ahead of AMD Fire and cost a fortune. Now that Nvidia owns Mellanox and they are looking at buying ARM, they are poised to become the only game in high end datacenters. That has me and others concerned. 

On August 11, 2020 7:55:41 AM EDT, Jeffrey Layton via Ale <ale at ale.org> wrote:
>I love this thread. Lots of people with great ideas and
>recommendations. I
>have some of the links bookmarked for when I get time to review :)
>
>
>On Mon, Aug 10, 2020 at 7:50 PM David Jackson via Ale <ale at ale.org>
>wrote:
>
>> Hey Bob,
>>
>> >>>For the new desktop I'm leaning towards a cheap graphics card as
>> suggested by several along with the ryzen 5 3600 on a B450
>motherboard.
>> (I'm not interested in gaming.)  Is the cheap graphics card still a
>> reasonable choice if I have to record video?
>> <<<
>>
>>
>> As far as the GPU choice, I would put the rx5700 as a very
>entry-level
>> GPU.  If you can spring for a beefier GPU, you'll notice a big
>> improvement.  Again, you video producers correct me where I'm wrong. 
>AMD
>> GPUs target the entry level up to the mid-range levels of GPU.  For
>super
>> heavy duty, it's all Nvidia.  But super-heavy is around the $600 and
>up
>> range.
>>
>
>In full disclosure, I work for NVIDIA(not the commercial side - the
>data
>center side). I think AMD makes GPUs that are just great and I won't
>disparage them at all. But I like ours better and I did before I joined
>the
>company. :) On the NVIDIA side there are GeForce GPUs for a wide range
>of
>prices. A quick look at Newegg shows a new NVIDIA GPU starting at about
>$45
>(GT710). This is a passively cooled card. My personal favorite
>passively
>cooled card is the GT1030 with 2GB of memory. There is one that costs
>$90
>that I particularly like.
>
>As you go up in price and performance then fans are added to the cards.
>I
>see some cards with 4GB of video memory under $200. For 6GB of video
>memory
>then it looks like you need to cross the $200 threshold (about $210).
>
>What I personally do is find a price point that I'm comfortable with
>and
>look for NVIDIA GPUs that reach that price point. I also look at cards
>that
>are a little above that price point and a little below that. I target
>three
>cards that I like (the Three Bears so to speak). I then look around for
>performance tests of those cards. I'm not a gamer so I ignore the game
>results but I do look at the computational tests as well as video
>encoding/decoding tests.
>
>I wait a couple of weeks if I can, and then see which of the three
>cards my
>"gut" says to go with. In general, I pick the one at my price point
>although for a couple of projects I chose the one that costs a little
>more.
>While my children were in school I tended to pick that one at my price
>point, but after they finished, I picked the ones that cost just a
>little
>more.
>
>When you pick a video card, be sure that your case has room for it -
>particularly if the card is long or takes up two slots (this is true
>for
>NVIDIA or AMD). This has bitten me in the past.
>
>As others say, I hope this helps.
>
>Jeff
>
>
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 10, 2020 at 1:31 PM Bob via Ale <ale at ale.org> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> A couple more questions relating to building a desktop.
>>>
>>> 1)  My wife is sensitive to noise, and we're often working in the
>same
>>> office at home.  She has mentioned that my current=old desktop is
>noisy.
>>>   Even though I don't notice it unless I think about it, I have to
>agree.
>>>
>>> When building a new desktop, what things can/should I do to keep it
>>> reasonably quiet?
>>>
>>> 2)  I have to record several hours of video each week.  I'm using
>>> obs-studio, and I think obs-studio has suggested a lower resolution
>due
>>> to the weak cpu.
>>>
>>> For the new desktop I'm leaning towards a cheap graphics card as
>>> suggested by several along with the ryzen 5 3600 on a B450
>motherboard.
>>> (I'm not interested in gaming.)  Is the cheap graphics card still a
>>> reasonable choice if I have to record video?
>>>
>>> BTW, something along the following is what I'm leaning towards
>building
>>> now:
>>>
>>> >> I tend to think the most "bang for the buck" system today (in my
>mind)
>>> >> would be a B450 motherboard with a Ryzen 5 3600, 16G RAM at about
>3200
>>> or
>>> >> faster, and I would go for an NVMe M.2 SSD at around 500G.  You
>can
>>> use a
>>> >> cheap video card (about $35) and the case and power supply as
>your
>>> budget
>>> >> and preference dictates.  Power supplies and cases are a bit more
>>> expensive
>>> >> these days, thanks to COVID-challenged supplies, but memory,
>ssd's and
>>> CPUs
>>> >> are relatively cheap.  This system would cost you about $550-600
>or so,
>>> >> depending on your choices.  One example:
>>> >> https://pcpartpicker.com/user/deepbsd/saved/#view=6tqG3C
>>>
>>> --Bob
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2020-08-02 10:45 p.m., David Jackson wrote:
>>> > I tend to build a lot of systems, so my perspective is influenced
>by
>>> this
>>> > bias.  But I'm unclear about your priorities.
>>> >
>>> > If you were doing something demanding (say rendering videos or
>doing
>>> heavy
>>> > computation or competitive gaming or whatever), you would be well
>>> beyond a
>>> > 3rd gen i5 cpu.  Since 3rd gen Intel level of tech seems to suit
>you
>>> fine,
>>> > it seems to me your performance requirements are rather low. 
>Another
>>> thing
>>> > I'm curious about is how much change are you willing to tolerate.
>>> Would a
>>> > lot of added performance be a bad thing or a good thing?
>>> >
>>> > I think you might be missing how easy it would be to get a
>*massive*
>>> > performance upgrade with a relatively slight effort or cost by
>upgrading
>>> > all your whole architecture.  A LOT has changed since 3rd gen
>Intel was
>>> > current.  For about the cost in difficulty and dollars in
>upgrading your
>>> > 3rd gen architecture, you could probably find a more current Ryzen
>>> system
>>> > that would give this massive upgrade.   What has changed a lot
>very
>>> > recently is that AMD Ryzen normally beats Intel in terms of
>performance
>>> per
>>> > dollar (bang for the buck) nowadays.  (I'm trying to keep it
>simple
>>> here.)
>>> > And the surrounding architecture has massively improved as well.
>>> Current
>>> > gen platforms are much more efficient and performant overall than
>a 3rd
>>> gen
>>> > i5 was.
>>> >
>>> > If you really prefer to "tough it out" on your current
>architecture, I
>>> > would have to infer that your priority has more to do with
>"optimizing
>>> the
>>> > last electron out of a potato" as I call it.  There's a certain
>level of
>>> > pride geeks sometimes get over "doing the most with the least"
>>> technology.
>>> > If that's you, then nevermind.  But it would help to know that
>"getting
>>> the
>>> > last ounce of performance out of your potato" is in fact a
>priority.  If
>>> > that's true, there are other layers of complexity that might be of
>>> > interest, such as over clocking and water cooling, but cost and
>>> complexity
>>> > quickly become factors here.  But if that seemed attractive to
>you, my
>>> > guess is your questions would have been very different.
>>> >
>>> > I tend to think the most "bang for the buck" system today (in my
>mind)
>>> > would be a B450 motherboard with a Ryzen 5 3600, 16G RAM at about
>3200
>>> or
>>> > faster, and I would go for an NVMe M.2 SSD at around 500G.  You
>can use
>>> a
>>> > cheap video card (about $35) and the case and power supply as your
>>> budget
>>> > and preference dictates.  Power supplies and cases are a bit more
>>> expensive
>>> > these days, thanks to COVID-challenged supplies, but memory, ssd's
>and
>>> CPUs
>>> > are relatively cheap.  This system would cost you about $550-600
>or so,
>>> > depending on your choices.  One example:
>>> > https://pcpartpicker.com/user/deepbsd/saved/#view=6tqG3C
>>> > I wager this system would make you grin each time you sit down at
>your
>>> PC.
>>> > I'd also wager that the "grin factor" would quickly offset the
>dollar
>>> > damage.
>>> >
>>> > I would imagine your existing system might fetch $100 on ebay,
>possibly?
>>> >
>>> > Hope this helps.
>>> >
>>> > On Tue, Jul 28, 2020 at 12:16 PM Bob via Ale <ale at ale.org> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Charles has me thinking about upgrading my 8 year old lenovo
>desktop.
>>> >> I'm thinking of increasing memory and installing an ssd.
>>> >>
>>> >> I don't know much about hardware, so I'm hoping some of you might
>give
>>> >> me some advice and maybe keep me from doing something stupid. 
>I'm not
>>> a
>>> >> gamer, so that might make things simpler.
>>> >>
>>> >> 1)  Memory.  Currently, there are  two 4 GB ddr3 1600 memory
>modules in
>>> >> the two memory slots.  There is no graphics card in my desktop
>and the
>>> >> integrated graphics uses some of the memory.  I can upgrade to
>two 8 gb
>>> >> ddr3l 1600.  According to crucial.com, the crucial 16gb kit (2 x
>8GB)
>>> >> ddr3l-1600 udimm are compatible.
>>> >>
>>> >> I believe my motherboard can use either ddr3 or ddr3l.  Is there
>an
>>> >> advantage of one over the other?
>>> >>
>>> >> (The power supply unit has been fine, but it's only 280 watts.  I
>don't
>>> >> know if that would affect the above choice or not.)
>>> >>
>>> >> Microcenter has a variety of brands:  Neo Forza, G. skills
>ripjaw,
>>> >> crucial, ....  Are there brands to avoid?  Are there brands that
>you'd
>>> >> recommend?
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> 2)  ssd.  This seems more complicated.
>>> >>
>>> >> There are 4 empty pci express slots---one is x16 and the others
>x1.  I
>>> >> do not believe that the motherboard supports pcie ssd.  The
>motherboard
>>> >> does not have mSATA or m.2 slots.  So pcie ssd seems to be
>impossible.
>>> >> (I don't know what I'd ever use these slots for.)
>>> >>
>>> >> The chipset on the motherboard only supports SATA at 3.0 gb/s. 
>There
>>> >> are 3 SATA ports and one e-SATA port.  (There has been no update
>to the
>>> >> bios/uefi firmware.)
>>> >>
>>> >> One SATA port is connected to the optical drive, and the other
>two SATA
>>> >> ports are connected to the two 1TB HDDs Both drives have plenty
>of free
>>> >> space.
>>> >>
>>> >> I don't know why I get slightly different info for the following.
> When
>>> >> I execute "sudo hdparm -I /dev/sda | grep SATA", the result is:
>>> >>
>>> >>          Transport:          Serial, SATA Rev 3.0
>>> >>
>>> >> but on /dev/sdb, the result is:
>>> >>
>>> >> Transport:          Serial, SATA 1.0a, SATA II Extensions, SATA
>Rev
>>> 2.5,
>>> >> SATA Rev 2.6, SATA Rev 3.0
>>> >>
>>> >> The e-SATA port is connected to a usm hot-swappable bay where I'm
>>> >> supposed to be able to plug in a portable SATA drive.  The
>connector is
>>> >> supposed to be a standard SATA connector.  I have never used this
>bay
>>> so
>>> >> far.
>>> >>
>>> >> It seems like I could either purchase an external SATA ssd and
>plug it
>>> >> into the bay.  I don't know if I would have troubles booting from
>that
>>> >> drive.
>>> >>
>>> >> OTOH, I could remove one of the HDDs and put the SSD into either
>>> >> /dev/sda or /dev/sdb.  Presumably, I could put the HDD that was
>removed
>>> >> into an enclosure allowing it to be placed into the swappable bay
>on
>>> the
>>> >> rare occasions that it was needed.
>>> >>
>>> >> 1)  Does it seem better to remove an HDD and put the ssd into
>that
>>> space
>>> >> vs. putting the ssd into the swappable bay?  Does it make a
>difference
>>> >> if the ssd is put into the drive where /dev/sda is or /dev/sdb?
>>> >>
>>> >> 2)  Any suggestions on how large the ssd should be?
>>> >>
>>> >> 3)  Are there brands to avoid or brands that you would recommend?
>>> >>
>>> >> --Bob
>>> >> _______________________________________________
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>>> >>
>>> >
>>>
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-- 
"no government by experts in which the masses do not have the chance to inform the experts as to their needs can be anything but an oligarchy managed in the interests of the few.” - John Dewey
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