[ale] please bow your head for a moment of silence...

[Adam Jimerson]

I would also like to add on to Jim's comment there is/was a bug with the
Watchdog process (see https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1365352 just
happened to be one of the first links I found in a quick Google search)
this is an issue with a kernel driver that is just being exposed by SystemD
(thus making it look like SystemD is causing things to hang).

Just my $0.02 from an Arch user and BSD developer that mostly lurks here,
back to your normally scheduled rants.

On Thu, Sep 7, 2017 at 11:06 AM Jim Kinney <jim.kinney at gmail.com> wrote:

> And that is not so much a failure of systemd as it is a failure of the
> distro.
>
> The shutdown process requires that filesystems get unmounted. If a process
> is trying to write to a log file while that log space is trying to get
> unmounted, hang! Sucks using that in a server environment without an
> addressable PDU.
>
> Is it the fault of the shutdown command or the fault of the people who
> wrote the logic that's failing? That logic layer is hinted at by systemd
> but is supposed to be fleshed out by the distro writers.
>
> So, um, yeah, Ubuntu dropped the ball. Fedora has some hangs as well in
> the same manner. CentOS 7.3 does not. I don't count my Fedora systems as
> "Server OS" although it could work with some tweaks. But Ubuntu 16.04 is
> supposed to be the LTS release and thus "server class".  That's (another)
> FAIL in the Ubuntu scorecard for me.
>
> (I'm happy to throw gasoline on a fire of why some distros are better
> suited than others for certain needs :-)
>
> Just because someone misuses an adjustable wrench and claims that makes it
> a lousy screwdriver doesn't make it a bad adjustable wrench.
>
> On Thu, 2017-09-07 at 10:35 -0400, James Sumners wrote:
>
> Meanwhile...
> https://utcc.utoronto.ca/~cks/space/blog/linux/SystemdUbuntuRebootFailure
>
> "We just went through a periodic exercise of rebooting all of our
> <https://support.cs.toronto.edu/> Ubuntu servers in order to get up to
> date on kernels and so on. By now almost all of our servers are running
> Ubuntu 16.04, which means that they're using systemd. Unfortunately this
> gives us a real problem, because *on Ubuntu 16.04, systemd won't reliably
> reboot your system*. On some servers, usually the busiest and most
> important ones, the system will just stop during the shutdown process and
> sit there. And sit there. And sit there. Perhaps it would eventually
> recover after tens of minutes, but as mentioned these are generally our
> busiest and most important servers, so we're not exactly going to let them
> sit there to find out what happens eventually."
>
> On Thu, Sep 7, 2017 at 10:18 AM, Jim Kinney <jim.kinney at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!
>
> On Thu, 2017-09-07 at 12:29 +0000, Lightner, Jeffrey wrote:
>
> Caveman conversation:
> Ug:  What that?
> Zog:  Wheel.
> Ug:  Why wheel?  Drag work for years.
> Zog: More fast to use wheel.
> Ug: Wheel made by false god to trap draggers.  It bad.
> Ug then clubs Zog because Zog doesn't see the intrinsic "reason" of Ug's opinion.
>
>
> Move ahead 10,000 years:
> Ug:  What that?
> Zog:  Systemd.
> Ug: Why systemd.  Init work for years...
>
> :p
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org <ale-bounces at ale.org>] On Behalf Of Steve Litt
> Sent: Thursday, September 07, 2017 1:47 AM
> To: ale at ale.org
> Subject: Re: [ale] please bow your head for a moment of silence...
>
> On Wed, 6 Sep 2017 07:53:36 -0400
> leam hall <leamhall at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> Given the Linux adoption of systemd the only options seem to be
> "Winderz with a GUI", "Winderz with a command line", "Expensive
> Fruit", or some flavor of BSD.
>
>
>
> That being said, several Linux distros don't use systemd and are committed to not using systemd:
>
> * Devuan
> * Void
> * Funtoo
>
> There are probably seven or eight more that currently don't use systemd, or don't use it by default, but have not foresworn the possibility.
>
> Except for those who "simply must" have their Gnome, KDE or NetworkManager, there are plenty of Linux systems out there they can run without systemd.
>
> SteveT
>
> Steve Litt
> September 2017 featured book: Manager's Guide to Technical Troubleshooting Brand new, second edition http://www.troubleshooters.com/mgr
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