[ale] [OT] good hardware for a learner!

Alex Carver agcarver+ale at acarver.net
Thu Apr 14 17:14:05 EDT 2016


I was looking at something like these:

http://www.logicsupply.com/ml100g-10/
http://www.logicsupply.com/ml400g-12/

But they're upwards of $400

On 2016-04-14 13:54, DJ-Pfulio wrote:
> There are some purpose made x86 router devices for about $130 based on the
> GX-412TC APU. I haven't seen any in the USA, but we can order from Europe.
> Switzerland.
> 
> Anyone interested in a bulk order to share shipping costs?
> http://www.pcengines.ch/apu.htm Probably need to stay under 8 units per order.
> 
> I'd lean towards the Intel NIC versions and avoid the RealTek.
> APU.2C4 at $122 http://www.pcengines.ch/apu2c4.htm
> Should handle GigE easily unlike the older versions.
> 
> Case is $10 more.  Provide your own power brick.
> 
> I have no interest in wifi - use an external UniFi if you want that.
> 
> Anyone interested?
> 
> On 04/14/2016 04:02 PM, Alex Carver wrote:
>> What interests me about these servers is the dual NIC.    I have the
>> similar thought about the fans as Scott because one of these would be
>> perfect as my firewall/gateway/NAT box.  I was otherwise looking at a
>> fanless dual-NIC Intel NUC box for the same purpose.
>>
>> On 2016-04-14 12:26, Karenga Smith wrote:
>>> Wow interesting I may have to consider getting one myself!
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> On Thu, Apr 14, 2016 at 8:11 AM, Jim Kinney <jim.kinney at gmail.com 
>>> <mailto:jim.kinney at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>>     On the whole, I agree with all of what was said. Server gear is designed to
>>>     RUN FOREVER and desktop gear is designed to SELL IN THE MILLIONS. Totally
>>>     different engineering viewpoints.
>>>
>>>     For the beginner Linux newbie, I would argue the server is the hardware to
>>>     learn on for the aspiring professional. That said, any decent machine will
>>>     provide expertise in Linux skilz :-)
>>>
>>>     Buying a used server for $200 beats the used desktop for the same price from
>>>     a professional standpoint in most cases. Unless the plan is to do big
>>>     graphic processing for artists doing 3D design, desktops are generally
>>>     disposable crap hardware. The server gear _is_ more costly not just because
>>>     of quantity price issues but because of engineered robustness.
>>>
>>>     Dual power supplies don't pull much more power that a single one. The total
>>>     load is split between the two plus a tiny fraction for monitoring and
>>>     inefficiency losses.
>>>
>>>     The power used by servers is what ever load is required of them. The Intel
>>>     systems will use more power per cpu flop than the Opteron ones. All can
>>>     throttle back clock speed to cut power when unused.
>>>
>>>     Fan noise on 1U machines is a problem. Desktops have huge fans and can turn
>>>     slower to move the same amount of air and thus less noise.
>>>
>>>     IPMI ports should NEVER be wired up to touch LAN or certainly not Internet
>>>     networks. Some Dells have a shared ILO/nic which kills using one nic for
>>>     much of anything.
>>>
>>>     But ipmi is really cool!
>>>
>>>     On Apr 14, 2016 7:27 AM, "DJ-Pfulio" <djpfulio at jdpfu.com
>>>     <mailto:djpfulio at jdpfu.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>>         "Server" hardware has many downsides.
>>>         * Power use - often these things have redundant PSUs; Server power use
>>>         has been
>>>         reduced greatly, but is still higher than desktops (for good reason).
>>>         * Heat - more power become more heat. Think about the July/August
>>>         electric bill.
>>>         * Noise - ever been inside a data center? Noise isn't **any** consideration.
>>>         * Higher cost of upgrades/replacement parts, usually.
>>>
>>>         A few pluses:
>>>         * Huge amount of RAM / ECC RAM
>>>         * Server-class CPUs
>>>         * Rack mounting (may not be a plus)
>>>
>>>         But Jim is right. Sometimes there are things that only server machines have
>>>         which are worth having hands-on experience with - IPMI for example. How
>>>         do lock
>>>         that down, since almost all IPMI has huge security issues.
>>>         https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligent_Platform_Management_Interface
>>>
>>>         Some of the Core i7 and multi-core AMD desktop CPUs are really
>>>         impressive, so
>>>         getting a "server" CPU isn't that important for a home user. Of course, they
>>>         will use lots of power too, when a 53W system might be all that is required.
>>>
>>>         ECC RAM - if you run ZFS, get ECC RAM. Lots of it.  Some desktop MBs
>>>         support ECC
>>>         and I have a hard time thinking of what someone at home would do with
>>>         32G of RAM
>>>         inside a system.  Met a guy with 96G of RAM in his box, but he was running
>>>         Windows. From what he described, sounded like 8G of RAM would have been
>>>         overkill
>>>         to me.  So he was stuck with this server-class box, 5+ yr old CPUs and
>>>         96G of
>>>         RAM that a new Core i7 would have blown away for $1K total system cost.
>>>
>>>         The point is that home server hardware to learn on isn't bad when it is
>>>         cheap,
>>>         but if you spend $4k+ on it, you'll find that it is like an albatross
>>>         following
>>>         you around for years.
>>>
>>>         It is noisy and sucks 2x-4x more power than a desktop system.
>>>
>>>
>>>         On 04/13/2016 11:23 PM, Scott M. Jones wrote:
>>>          > Does it have a loud fan? That might be the down side...
>>>          >
>>>          > On Apr 12, 2016, at 5:00 PM, Jim Kinney <jim.kinney at gmail.com
>>>         <mailto:jim.kinney at gmail.com>
>>>          > <mailto:jim.kinney at gmail.com <mailto:jim.kinney at gmail.com>>> wrote:
>>>          >
>>>          >> I don't push hardware unless it's mine or I'm just drooling over it.
>>>          >>
>>>          >> However....
>>>          >>
>>>          >> http://ebay.to/1VSdviy
>>>          >>
>>>          >> That's a bitly link to an ebay listing for several Dell 1U systems.
>>>         They have
>>>          >> the basics of everything to get jumping on Linux from power
>>>         management to
>>>          >> virtualization all for $213 (including shipping). These are
>>>         reliable, solid
>>>          >> machines that are out of date for current commercial use (DDR2 RAM
>>>         is far more
>>>          >> costly that DDR3 per GB) but perfect for someone who wants
>>>         server-class gear
>>>          >> at home to learn on.
>>>          >>
>>>          >> I usually get supermicro but they all have odd quirks that make them
>>>         a pain.
>>>          >> New ones are a great deal on that price/power/pain curve. Dell is
>>>         over priced
>>>          >> when new. IBM is stupidly over priced new (and used!).
>>>          >>
>>>          >> Just my $0.02
>>
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