[ale] [OT] good hardware for a learner!
Alex Carver
agcarver+ale at acarver.net
Thu Apr 14 17:14:05 EDT 2016
I was looking at something like these:
http://www.logicsupply.com/ml100g-10/
http://www.logicsupply.com/ml400g-12/
But they're upwards of $400
On 2016-04-14 13:54, DJ-Pfulio wrote:
> There are some purpose made x86 router devices for about $130 based on the
> GX-412TC APU. I haven't seen any in the USA, but we can order from Europe.
> Switzerland.
>
> Anyone interested in a bulk order to share shipping costs?
> http://www.pcengines.ch/apu.htm Probably need to stay under 8 units per order.
>
> I'd lean towards the Intel NIC versions and avoid the RealTek.
> APU.2C4 at $122 http://www.pcengines.ch/apu2c4.htm
> Should handle GigE easily unlike the older versions.
>
> Case is $10 more. Provide your own power brick.
>
> I have no interest in wifi - use an external UniFi if you want that.
>
> Anyone interested?
>
> On 04/14/2016 04:02 PM, Alex Carver wrote:
>> What interests me about these servers is the dual NIC. I have the
>> similar thought about the fans as Scott because one of these would be
>> perfect as my firewall/gateway/NAT box. I was otherwise looking at a
>> fanless dual-NIC Intel NUC box for the same purpose.
>>
>> On 2016-04-14 12:26, Karenga Smith wrote:
>>> Wow interesting I may have to consider getting one myself!
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> On Thu, Apr 14, 2016 at 8:11 AM, Jim Kinney <jim.kinney at gmail.com
>>> <mailto:jim.kinney at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> On the whole, I agree with all of what was said. Server gear is designed to
>>> RUN FOREVER and desktop gear is designed to SELL IN THE MILLIONS. Totally
>>> different engineering viewpoints.
>>>
>>> For the beginner Linux newbie, I would argue the server is the hardware to
>>> learn on for the aspiring professional. That said, any decent machine will
>>> provide expertise in Linux skilz :-)
>>>
>>> Buying a used server for $200 beats the used desktop for the same price from
>>> a professional standpoint in most cases. Unless the plan is to do big
>>> graphic processing for artists doing 3D design, desktops are generally
>>> disposable crap hardware. The server gear _is_ more costly not just because
>>> of quantity price issues but because of engineered robustness.
>>>
>>> Dual power supplies don't pull much more power that a single one. The total
>>> load is split between the two plus a tiny fraction for monitoring and
>>> inefficiency losses.
>>>
>>> The power used by servers is what ever load is required of them. The Intel
>>> systems will use more power per cpu flop than the Opteron ones. All can
>>> throttle back clock speed to cut power when unused.
>>>
>>> Fan noise on 1U machines is a problem. Desktops have huge fans and can turn
>>> slower to move the same amount of air and thus less noise.
>>>
>>> IPMI ports should NEVER be wired up to touch LAN or certainly not Internet
>>> networks. Some Dells have a shared ILO/nic which kills using one nic for
>>> much of anything.
>>>
>>> But ipmi is really cool!
>>>
>>> On Apr 14, 2016 7:27 AM, "DJ-Pfulio" <djpfulio at jdpfu.com
>>> <mailto:djpfulio at jdpfu.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> "Server" hardware has many downsides.
>>> * Power use - often these things have redundant PSUs; Server power use
>>> has been
>>> reduced greatly, but is still higher than desktops (for good reason).
>>> * Heat - more power become more heat. Think about the July/August
>>> electric bill.
>>> * Noise - ever been inside a data center? Noise isn't **any** consideration.
>>> * Higher cost of upgrades/replacement parts, usually.
>>>
>>> A few pluses:
>>> * Huge amount of RAM / ECC RAM
>>> * Server-class CPUs
>>> * Rack mounting (may not be a plus)
>>>
>>> But Jim is right. Sometimes there are things that only server machines have
>>> which are worth having hands-on experience with - IPMI for example. How
>>> do lock
>>> that down, since almost all IPMI has huge security issues.
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligent_Platform_Management_Interface
>>>
>>> Some of the Core i7 and multi-core AMD desktop CPUs are really
>>> impressive, so
>>> getting a "server" CPU isn't that important for a home user. Of course, they
>>> will use lots of power too, when a 53W system might be all that is required.
>>>
>>> ECC RAM - if you run ZFS, get ECC RAM. Lots of it. Some desktop MBs
>>> support ECC
>>> and I have a hard time thinking of what someone at home would do with
>>> 32G of RAM
>>> inside a system. Met a guy with 96G of RAM in his box, but he was running
>>> Windows. From what he described, sounded like 8G of RAM would have been
>>> overkill
>>> to me. So he was stuck with this server-class box, 5+ yr old CPUs and
>>> 96G of
>>> RAM that a new Core i7 would have blown away for $1K total system cost.
>>>
>>> The point is that home server hardware to learn on isn't bad when it is
>>> cheap,
>>> but if you spend $4k+ on it, you'll find that it is like an albatross
>>> following
>>> you around for years.
>>>
>>> It is noisy and sucks 2x-4x more power than a desktop system.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 04/13/2016 11:23 PM, Scott M. Jones wrote:
>>> > Does it have a loud fan? That might be the down side...
>>> >
>>> > On Apr 12, 2016, at 5:00 PM, Jim Kinney <jim.kinney at gmail.com
>>> <mailto:jim.kinney at gmail.com>
>>> > <mailto:jim.kinney at gmail.com <mailto:jim.kinney at gmail.com>>> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> I don't push hardware unless it's mine or I'm just drooling over it.
>>> >>
>>> >> However....
>>> >>
>>> >> http://ebay.to/1VSdviy
>>> >>
>>> >> That's a bitly link to an ebay listing for several Dell 1U systems.
>>> They have
>>> >> the basics of everything to get jumping on Linux from power
>>> management to
>>> >> virtualization all for $213 (including shipping). These are
>>> reliable, solid
>>> >> machines that are out of date for current commercial use (DDR2 RAM
>>> is far more
>>> >> costly that DDR3 per GB) but perfect for someone who wants
>>> server-class gear
>>> >> at home to learn on.
>>> >>
>>> >> I usually get supermicro but they all have odd quirks that make them
>>> a pain.
>>> >> New ones are a great deal on that price/power/pain curve. Dell is
>>> over priced
>>> >> when new. IBM is stupidly over priced new (and used!).
>>> >>
>>> >> Just my $0.02
>>
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