[ale] [OT] good hardware for a learner!

DJ-Pfulio djpfulio at jdpfu.com
Thu Apr 14 16:54:24 EDT 2016


There are some purpose made x86 router devices for about $130 based on the
GX-412TC APU. I haven't seen any in the USA, but we can order from Europe.
Switzerland.

Anyone interested in a bulk order to share shipping costs?
http://www.pcengines.ch/apu.htm Probably need to stay under 8 units per order.

I'd lean towards the Intel NIC versions and avoid the RealTek.
APU.2C4 at $122 http://www.pcengines.ch/apu2c4.htm
Should handle GigE easily unlike the older versions.

Case is $10 more.  Provide your own power brick.

I have no interest in wifi - use an external UniFi if you want that.

Anyone interested?

On 04/14/2016 04:02 PM, Alex Carver wrote:
> What interests me about these servers is the dual NIC.    I have the
> similar thought about the fans as Scott because one of these would be
> perfect as my firewall/gateway/NAT box.  I was otherwise looking at a
> fanless dual-NIC Intel NUC box for the same purpose.
> 
> On 2016-04-14 12:26, Karenga Smith wrote:
>> Wow interesting I may have to consider getting one myself!
>> Thanks
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 14, 2016 at 8:11 AM, Jim Kinney <jim.kinney at gmail.com 
>> <mailto:jim.kinney at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>     On the whole, I agree with all of what was said. Server gear is designed to
>>     RUN FOREVER and desktop gear is designed to SELL IN THE MILLIONS. Totally
>>     different engineering viewpoints.
>>
>>     For the beginner Linux newbie, I would argue the server is the hardware to
>>     learn on for the aspiring professional. That said, any decent machine will
>>     provide expertise in Linux skilz :-)
>>
>>     Buying a used server for $200 beats the used desktop for the same price from
>>     a professional standpoint in most cases. Unless the plan is to do big
>>     graphic processing for artists doing 3D design, desktops are generally
>>     disposable crap hardware. The server gear _is_ more costly not just because
>>     of quantity price issues but because of engineered robustness.
>>
>>     Dual power supplies don't pull much more power that a single one. The total
>>     load is split between the two plus a tiny fraction for monitoring and
>>     inefficiency losses.
>>
>>     The power used by servers is what ever load is required of them. The Intel
>>     systems will use more power per cpu flop than the Opteron ones. All can
>>     throttle back clock speed to cut power when unused.
>>
>>     Fan noise on 1U machines is a problem. Desktops have huge fans and can turn
>>     slower to move the same amount of air and thus less noise.
>>
>>     IPMI ports should NEVER be wired up to touch LAN or certainly not Internet
>>     networks. Some Dells have a shared ILO/nic which kills using one nic for
>>     much of anything.
>>
>>     But ipmi is really cool!
>>
>>     On Apr 14, 2016 7:27 AM, "DJ-Pfulio" <djpfulio at jdpfu.com
>>     <mailto:djpfulio at jdpfu.com>> wrote:
>>
>>         "Server" hardware has many downsides.
>>         * Power use - often these things have redundant PSUs; Server power use
>>         has been
>>         reduced greatly, but is still higher than desktops (for good reason).
>>         * Heat - more power become more heat. Think about the July/August
>>         electric bill.
>>         * Noise - ever been inside a data center? Noise isn't **any** consideration.
>>         * Higher cost of upgrades/replacement parts, usually.
>>
>>         A few pluses:
>>         * Huge amount of RAM / ECC RAM
>>         * Server-class CPUs
>>         * Rack mounting (may not be a plus)
>>
>>         But Jim is right. Sometimes there are things that only server machines have
>>         which are worth having hands-on experience with - IPMI for example. How
>>         do lock
>>         that down, since almost all IPMI has huge security issues.
>>         https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligent_Platform_Management_Interface
>>
>>         Some of the Core i7 and multi-core AMD desktop CPUs are really
>>         impressive, so
>>         getting a "server" CPU isn't that important for a home user. Of course, they
>>         will use lots of power too, when a 53W system might be all that is required.
>>
>>         ECC RAM - if you run ZFS, get ECC RAM. Lots of it.  Some desktop MBs
>>         support ECC
>>         and I have a hard time thinking of what someone at home would do with
>>         32G of RAM
>>         inside a system.  Met a guy with 96G of RAM in his box, but he was running
>>         Windows. From what he described, sounded like 8G of RAM would have been
>>         overkill
>>         to me.  So he was stuck with this server-class box, 5+ yr old CPUs and
>>         96G of
>>         RAM that a new Core i7 would have blown away for $1K total system cost.
>>
>>         The point is that home server hardware to learn on isn't bad when it is
>>         cheap,
>>         but if you spend $4k+ on it, you'll find that it is like an albatross
>>         following
>>         you around for years.
>>
>>         It is noisy and sucks 2x-4x more power than a desktop system.
>>
>>
>>         On 04/13/2016 11:23 PM, Scott M. Jones wrote:
>>          > Does it have a loud fan? That might be the down side...
>>          >
>>          > On Apr 12, 2016, at 5:00 PM, Jim Kinney <jim.kinney at gmail.com
>>         <mailto:jim.kinney at gmail.com>
>>          > <mailto:jim.kinney at gmail.com <mailto:jim.kinney at gmail.com>>> wrote:
>>          >
>>          >> I don't push hardware unless it's mine or I'm just drooling over it.
>>          >>
>>          >> However....
>>          >>
>>          >> http://ebay.to/1VSdviy
>>          >>
>>          >> That's a bitly link to an ebay listing for several Dell 1U systems.
>>         They have
>>          >> the basics of everything to get jumping on Linux from power
>>         management to
>>          >> virtualization all for $213 (including shipping). These are
>>         reliable, solid
>>          >> machines that are out of date for current commercial use (DDR2 RAM
>>         is far more
>>          >> costly that DDR3 per GB) but perfect for someone who wants
>>         server-class gear
>>          >> at home to learn on.
>>          >>
>>          >> I usually get supermicro but they all have odd quirks that make them
>>         a pain.
>>          >> New ones are a great deal on that price/power/pain curve. Dell is
>>         over priced
>>          >> when new. IBM is stupidly over priced new (and used!).
>>          >>
>>          >> Just my $0.02
> 
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