[ale] [OT] good hardware for a learner!
DJ-Pfulio
djpfulio at jdpfu.com
Thu Apr 14 16:54:24 EDT 2016
There are some purpose made x86 router devices for about $130 based on the
GX-412TC APU. I haven't seen any in the USA, but we can order from Europe.
Switzerland.
Anyone interested in a bulk order to share shipping costs?
http://www.pcengines.ch/apu.htm Probably need to stay under 8 units per order.
I'd lean towards the Intel NIC versions and avoid the RealTek.
APU.2C4 at $122 http://www.pcengines.ch/apu2c4.htm
Should handle GigE easily unlike the older versions.
Case is $10 more. Provide your own power brick.
I have no interest in wifi - use an external UniFi if you want that.
Anyone interested?
On 04/14/2016 04:02 PM, Alex Carver wrote:
> What interests me about these servers is the dual NIC. I have the
> similar thought about the fans as Scott because one of these would be
> perfect as my firewall/gateway/NAT box. I was otherwise looking at a
> fanless dual-NIC Intel NUC box for the same purpose.
>
> On 2016-04-14 12:26, Karenga Smith wrote:
>> Wow interesting I may have to consider getting one myself!
>> Thanks
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 14, 2016 at 8:11 AM, Jim Kinney <jim.kinney at gmail.com
>> <mailto:jim.kinney at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> On the whole, I agree with all of what was said. Server gear is designed to
>> RUN FOREVER and desktop gear is designed to SELL IN THE MILLIONS. Totally
>> different engineering viewpoints.
>>
>> For the beginner Linux newbie, I would argue the server is the hardware to
>> learn on for the aspiring professional. That said, any decent machine will
>> provide expertise in Linux skilz :-)
>>
>> Buying a used server for $200 beats the used desktop for the same price from
>> a professional standpoint in most cases. Unless the plan is to do big
>> graphic processing for artists doing 3D design, desktops are generally
>> disposable crap hardware. The server gear _is_ more costly not just because
>> of quantity price issues but because of engineered robustness.
>>
>> Dual power supplies don't pull much more power that a single one. The total
>> load is split between the two plus a tiny fraction for monitoring and
>> inefficiency losses.
>>
>> The power used by servers is what ever load is required of them. The Intel
>> systems will use more power per cpu flop than the Opteron ones. All can
>> throttle back clock speed to cut power when unused.
>>
>> Fan noise on 1U machines is a problem. Desktops have huge fans and can turn
>> slower to move the same amount of air and thus less noise.
>>
>> IPMI ports should NEVER be wired up to touch LAN or certainly not Internet
>> networks. Some Dells have a shared ILO/nic which kills using one nic for
>> much of anything.
>>
>> But ipmi is really cool!
>>
>> On Apr 14, 2016 7:27 AM, "DJ-Pfulio" <djpfulio at jdpfu.com
>> <mailto:djpfulio at jdpfu.com>> wrote:
>>
>> "Server" hardware has many downsides.
>> * Power use - often these things have redundant PSUs; Server power use
>> has been
>> reduced greatly, but is still higher than desktops (for good reason).
>> * Heat - more power become more heat. Think about the July/August
>> electric bill.
>> * Noise - ever been inside a data center? Noise isn't **any** consideration.
>> * Higher cost of upgrades/replacement parts, usually.
>>
>> A few pluses:
>> * Huge amount of RAM / ECC RAM
>> * Server-class CPUs
>> * Rack mounting (may not be a plus)
>>
>> But Jim is right. Sometimes there are things that only server machines have
>> which are worth having hands-on experience with - IPMI for example. How
>> do lock
>> that down, since almost all IPMI has huge security issues.
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligent_Platform_Management_Interface
>>
>> Some of the Core i7 and multi-core AMD desktop CPUs are really
>> impressive, so
>> getting a "server" CPU isn't that important for a home user. Of course, they
>> will use lots of power too, when a 53W system might be all that is required.
>>
>> ECC RAM - if you run ZFS, get ECC RAM. Lots of it. Some desktop MBs
>> support ECC
>> and I have a hard time thinking of what someone at home would do with
>> 32G of RAM
>> inside a system. Met a guy with 96G of RAM in his box, but he was running
>> Windows. From what he described, sounded like 8G of RAM would have been
>> overkill
>> to me. So he was stuck with this server-class box, 5+ yr old CPUs and
>> 96G of
>> RAM that a new Core i7 would have blown away for $1K total system cost.
>>
>> The point is that home server hardware to learn on isn't bad when it is
>> cheap,
>> but if you spend $4k+ on it, you'll find that it is like an albatross
>> following
>> you around for years.
>>
>> It is noisy and sucks 2x-4x more power than a desktop system.
>>
>>
>> On 04/13/2016 11:23 PM, Scott M. Jones wrote:
>> > Does it have a loud fan? That might be the down side...
>> >
>> > On Apr 12, 2016, at 5:00 PM, Jim Kinney <jim.kinney at gmail.com
>> <mailto:jim.kinney at gmail.com>
>> > <mailto:jim.kinney at gmail.com <mailto:jim.kinney at gmail.com>>> wrote:
>> >
>> >> I don't push hardware unless it's mine or I'm just drooling over it.
>> >>
>> >> However....
>> >>
>> >> http://ebay.to/1VSdviy
>> >>
>> >> That's a bitly link to an ebay listing for several Dell 1U systems.
>> They have
>> >> the basics of everything to get jumping on Linux from power
>> management to
>> >> virtualization all for $213 (including shipping). These are
>> reliable, solid
>> >> machines that are out of date for current commercial use (DDR2 RAM
>> is far more
>> >> costly that DDR3 per GB) but perfect for someone who wants
>> server-class gear
>> >> at home to learn on.
>> >>
>> >> I usually get supermicro but they all have odd quirks that make them
>> a pain.
>> >> New ones are a great deal on that price/power/pain curve. Dell is
>> over priced
>> >> when new. IBM is stupidly over priced new (and used!).
>> >>
>> >> Just my $0.02
>
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