[ale] [OT] good hardware for a learner!

Thu Apr 14 15:26:32 EDT 2016

Wow interesting I may have to consider getting one myself!
Thanks

On Thu, Apr 14, 2016 at 8:11 AM, Jim Kinney <jim.kinney at gmail.com> wrote:

> On the whole, I agree with all of what was said. Server gear is designed
> to RUN FOREVER and desktop gear is designed to SELL IN THE MILLIONS.
> Totally different engineering viewpoints.
>
> For the beginner Linux newbie, I would argue the server is the hardware to
> learn on for the aspiring professional. That said, any decent machine will
> provide expertise in Linux skilz :-)
>
> Buying a used server for $200 beats the used desktop for the same price
> from a professional standpoint in most cases. Unless the plan is to do big
> graphic processing for artists doing 3D design, desktops are generally
> disposable crap hardware. The server gear _is_ more costly not just because
> of quantity price issues but because of engineered robustness.
>
> Dual power supplies don't pull much more power that a single one. The
> total load is split between the two plus a tiny fraction for monitoring and
> inefficiency losses.
>
> The power used by servers is what ever load is required of them. The Intel
> systems will use more power per cpu flop than the Opteron ones. All can
> throttle back clock speed to cut power when unused.
>
> Fan noise on 1U machines is a problem. Desktops have huge fans and can
> turn slower to move the same amount of air and thus less noise.
>
> IPMI ports should NEVER be wired up to touch LAN or certainly not Internet
> networks. Some Dells have a shared ILO/nic which kills using one nic for
> much of anything.
>
> But ipmi is really cool!
> On Apr 14, 2016 7:27 AM, "DJ-Pfulio" <djpfulio at jdpfu.com> wrote:
>
>> "Server" hardware has many downsides.
>> * Power use - often these things have redundant PSUs; Server power use
>> has been
>> reduced greatly, but is still higher than desktops (for good reason).
>> * Heat - more power become more heat. Think about the July/August
>> electric bill.
>> * Noise - ever been inside a data center? Noise isn't **any**
>> consideration.
>> * Higher cost of upgrades/replacement parts, usually.
>>
>> A few pluses:
>> * Huge amount of RAM / ECC RAM
>> * Server-class CPUs
>> * Rack mounting (may not be a plus)
>>
>> But Jim is right. Sometimes there are things that only server machines
>> have
>> which are worth having hands-on experience with - IPMI for example. How
>> do lock
>> that down, since almost all IPMI has huge security issues.
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligent_Platform_Management_Interface
>>
>> Some of the Core i7 and multi-core AMD desktop CPUs are really
>> impressive, so
>> getting a "server" CPU isn't that important for a home user. Of course,
>> they
>> will use lots of power too, when a 53W system might be all that is
>> required.
>>
>> ECC RAM - if you run ZFS, get ECC RAM. Lots of it.  Some desktop MBs
>> support ECC
>> and I have a hard time thinking of what someone at home would do with 32G
>> of RAM
>> inside a system.  Met a guy with 96G of RAM in his box, but he was running
>> Windows. From what he described, sounded like 8G of RAM would have been
>> overkill
>> to me.  So he was stuck with this server-class box, 5+ yr old CPUs and
>> 96G of
>> RAM that a new Core i7 would have blown away for $1K total system cost.
>>
>> The point is that home server hardware to learn on isn't bad when it is
>> cheap,
>> but if you spend $4k+ on it, you'll find that it is like an albatross
>> following
>> you around for years.
>>
>> It is noisy and sucks 2x-4x more power than a desktop system.
>>
>>
>> On 04/13/2016 11:23 PM, Scott M. Jones wrote:
>> > Does it have a loud fan? That might be the down side...
>> >
>> > On Apr 12, 2016, at 5:00 PM, Jim Kinney <jim.kinney at gmail.com
>> > <mailto:jim.kinney at gmail.com>> wrote:
>> >
>> >> I don't push hardware unless it's mine or I'm just drooling over it.
>> >>
>> >> However....
>> >>
>> >> http://ebay.to/1VSdviy
>> >>
>> >> That's a bitly link to an ebay listing for several Dell 1U systems.
>> They have
>> >> the basics of everything to get jumping on Linux from power management
>> to
>> >> virtualization all for $213 (including shipping). These are reliable,
>> solid
>> >> machines that are out of date for current commercial use (DDR2 RAM is
>> far more
>> >> costly that DDR3 per GB) but perfect for someone who wants
>> server-class gear
>> >> at home to learn on.
>> >>
>> >> I usually get supermicro but they all have odd quirks that make them a
>> pain.
>> >> New ones are a great deal on that price/power/pain curve. Dell is over
>> priced
>> >> when new. IBM is stupidly over priced new (and used!).
>> >>
>> >> Just my $0.02
>>
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Karenga Smith
KPI NetworX
ksmith at kpinetworx.com
O 770.835.5574
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