[ale] [OT] good hardware for a learner!

[Jim Kinney]

On the whole, I agree with all of what was said. Server gear is designed to
RUN FOREVER and desktop gear is designed to SELL IN THE MILLIONS. Totally
different engineering viewpoints.

For the beginner Linux newbie, I would argue the server is the hardware to
learn on for the aspiring professional. That said, any decent machine will
provide expertise in Linux skilz :-)

Buying a used server for $200 beats the used desktop for the same price
from a professional standpoint in most cases. Unless the plan is to do big
graphic processing for artists doing 3D design, desktops are generally
disposable crap hardware. The server gear _is_ more costly not just because
of quantity price issues but because of engineered robustness.

Dual power supplies don't pull much more power that a single one. The total
load is split between the two plus a tiny fraction for monitoring and
inefficiency losses.

The power used by servers is what ever load is required of them. The Intel
systems will use more power per cpu flop than the Opteron ones. All can
throttle back clock speed to cut power when unused.

Fan noise on 1U machines is a problem. Desktops have huge fans and can turn
slower to move the same amount of air and thus less noise.

IPMI ports should NEVER be wired up to touch LAN or certainly not Internet
networks. Some Dells have a shared ILO/nic which kills using one nic for
much of anything.

But ipmi is really cool!
On Apr 14, 2016 7:27 AM, "DJ-Pfulio" <djpfulio at jdpfu.com> wrote:

> "Server" hardware has many downsides.
> * Power use - often these things have redundant PSUs; Server power use has
> been
> reduced greatly, but is still higher than desktops (for good reason).
> * Heat - more power become more heat. Think about the July/August electric
> bill.
> * Noise - ever been inside a data center? Noise isn't **any**
> consideration.
> * Higher cost of upgrades/replacement parts, usually.
>
> A few pluses:
> * Huge amount of RAM / ECC RAM
> * Server-class CPUs
> * Rack mounting (may not be a plus)
>
> But Jim is right. Sometimes there are things that only server machines have
> which are worth having hands-on experience with - IPMI for example. How do
> lock
> that down, since almost all IPMI has huge security issues.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligent_Platform_Management_Interface
>
> Some of the Core i7 and multi-core AMD desktop CPUs are really impressive,
> so
> getting a "server" CPU isn't that important for a home user. Of course,
> they
> will use lots of power too, when a 53W system might be all that is
> required.
>
> ECC RAM - if you run ZFS, get ECC RAM. Lots of it.  Some desktop MBs
> support ECC
> and I have a hard time thinking of what someone at home would do with 32G
> of RAM
> inside a system.  Met a guy with 96G of RAM in his box, but he was running
> Windows. From what he described, sounded like 8G of RAM would have been
> overkill
> to me.  So he was stuck with this server-class box, 5+ yr old CPUs and 96G
> of
> RAM that a new Core i7 would have blown away for $1K total system cost.
>
> The point is that home server hardware to learn on isn't bad when it is
> cheap,
> but if you spend $4k+ on it, you'll find that it is like an albatross
> following
> you around for years.
>
> It is noisy and sucks 2x-4x more power than a desktop system.
>
>
> On 04/13/2016 11:23 PM, Scott M. Jones wrote:
> > Does it have a loud fan? That might be the down side...
> >
> > On Apr 12, 2016, at 5:00 PM, Jim Kinney <jim.kinney at gmail.com
> > <mailto:jim.kinney at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >
> >> I don't push hardware unless it's mine or I'm just drooling over it.
> >>
> >> However....
> >>
> >> http://ebay.to/1VSdviy
> >>
> >> That's a bitly link to an ebay listing for several Dell 1U systems.
> They have
> >> the basics of everything to get jumping on Linux from power management
> to
> >> virtualization all for $213 (including shipping). These are reliable,
> solid
> >> machines that are out of date for current commercial use (DDR2 RAM is
> far more
> >> costly that DDR3 per GB) but perfect for someone who wants server-class
> gear
> >> at home to learn on.
> >>
> >> I usually get supermicro but they all have odd quirks that make them a
> pain.
> >> New ones are a great deal on that price/power/pain curve. Dell is over
> priced
> >> when new. IBM is stupidly over priced new (and used!).
> >>
> >> Just my $0.02
>
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