[ale] Presentation challenge

Sat Feb 2 16:04:05 EST 2013

I actually did that recently.  I thought I had saved an image of the screen but couldn't find it.  I had 4 terminal windows open, tiled on the screen.  I was using a different wget command in each window to download a bunch of mp3 podcast files.  As soon as one process would finish, I'd go to that window and change the file name and start a new download.  That way, I was able to keep 3-4 downloads going at all times and eventually get 60 files or so in a couple of hours.  It's possible I could have automated it with a script, but didn't know how.

Sincerely,

Ron

Edward Holcroft <eholcroft at mkainc.com> wrote:

>"Again, this is not meant to draw a dividing line between or incite
>conflict between command-line-fans, text-file-fans, and GUI-fans.  It's
>meant to elaborate on the advantages of having both."
>
>This reminds me of a classic old comment I once heard: "The GUI is the
>best
>way to use Linux because it makes it so easy to have multiple command
>prompts open at once."
>
>ed
>
>
>On Sat, Feb 2, 2013 at 11:29 AM, Ron Frazier (ALE) <
>atllinuxenthinfo at techstarship.com> wrote:
>
>> **
>> See inline.
>>
>>
>> On 2/2/2013 2:49 AM, JD wrote:
>>
>> Ron,
>>
>> Installing a GUI on Linux isn't a big deal. It is like installing any
>> other program. Heck, install both Mate and Cinnamon and try them out.
>It is
>> just a PPA for each, then you choose which you like to run at login.
>> Of course, I'd test out each GUI in a different user account to limit
>> setting collisions in the ~/.config/ and other dirs under $HOME.
>>
>> PPAs really are nice, provided the person managing it is competent,
>> trustworthy and maintains it against the main distro repositories.
>>
>> Not a big deal at all. Just a few minutes to install on a fast
>connection.
>> If you don't like a GUI, remove it from the system.
>>
>>
>> That sounds neat.  I think I'm going to put Ubuntu 12.04 in a virtual
>> machine and, perhaps, set up a login for Mate testing and one for
>Cinnamon
>> testing, since you mentioned that there may be conflicts.  I think I
>tried
>> to install xfce once and some of my Gnome settings got mangled.  I
>don't
>> remember exactly what happened, but I haven't tried it since.
>>
>>
>> "Control panel" what's that? Settings are usually maintained in text
>files
>> under ~/.config/ No need for a GUI to manage them, though sometimes
>the XML
>> is easier to handle with some GUI tool. This isn't MS-Windows, the
>tools
>> are hardly mandatory.
>>
>>
>> I'm going to express a different opinion here.  That doesn't mean
>yours is
>> wrong.  Just different.  And, everyone has a different style of using
>and
>> configuring their PC.
>>
>> I will say that I can sling text files around as good as anyone,
>assuming
>> I know what to put in the text file.  Been there.  Done that, 30
>years ago
>> with DOS and older versions of Windows.  Almost everything was text
>file
>> based.  I hated it, and was immensely grateful when Windows moved
>away from
>> that trend from XP and forward.
>>
>> There are still some config files hanging around in Windows, and
>there is,
>> of course, the registry; both of which I can and will edit if
>necessary.
>>
>> I far and away prefer to do things from the GUI if possible.  If
>there's
>> something I have to do, which cannot be done from the GUI, I will do
>it by
>> editing text files or the registry if I have to.  If it's something I
>can
>> optionally do, I may not do it at all if there is no GUI interface,
>> particularly if it's something I only have to do once or
>infrequently.
>>
>> One of the most fundamental reasons that I have this preference is
>that a
>> config file is NON INTUITIVE.  I have to read a man page or help file
>to
>> find out what all the options for all the commands that go into the
>config
>> file are.  As I said, I can do and have done this.
>>
>> A properly designed GUI is INTUITIVE.  It is immediately obvious what
>your
>> options are for whatever it is you're setting up.  You have entry
>blanks,
>> radio buttons, check boxes, etc., with labels beside them which
>indicate
>> immediately what they do.  In the best GUI's, you can get help on the
>> meaning of any entry blank by hovering over it or clicking a help
>button.
>> So, using such a properly designed GUI, I can go in to configure the
>> settings for the power, or the screen appearance, or whatever, for
>the very
>> first time, and get the job done quickly by concentrating on what I
>want
>> the settings to be, rather than figuring out what the settings are
>and then
>> figuring out how to communicate them to the system.
>>
>> I consider the options screens of Firefox to be a well designed GUI.
>> Complex, to be sure, but still well designed.  Many of you know that
>you
>> can type about:config in the Firefox address bar and get to their
>> settings subsystem.  It's their equivalent of the registry, but I
>don't
>> know what they call it.  I can, and have, tweaked things there too,
>but
>> would much rather do things from the GUI.
>>
>> I do understand that some things can be better done, or only done,
>with a
>> command line, a chain of commands, or a script.  I get that.  I also
>get
>> that designing GUI's for some purposes is complex and perhaps not
>worth the
>> effort.  However, I do like the concept that many Linux utility and
>some
>> Windows utility providers are doing, of providing all of command
>line,
>> script, and GUI interfaces to their programs.
>>
>> I should not have to read a man page to be able to configure my
>> screensaver, my power settings, my ups settings, or even to run a
>badblocks
>> test on my hdd.  After comparing the GUI, specifically, of Windows 7,
>Gnome
>> 2 (Ubuntu 11.04), and Unity (Ubuntu 12.04), I have concluded that
>Windows 7
>> gives me far and away more access and more control of the under the
>hood
>> guts of my system than either of the two Ubuntu options, through the
>GUI.
>> (Windows 8 is a total step backwards from this.)  This is the way it
>should
>> be.  Now, I will reiterate that I don't think you should be
>restricted to
>> the GUI.  Most things should be scriptable, or accessible via command
>> line.  But, I will say that there should ALWAYS be an option to use a
>GUI
>> for most major system configuration functions.
>>
>> The badblocks command is a prime example.  I posted about some of my
>> experience with it in recent threads on HDD maintenance.  It is a
>very
>> useful, and powerful command.  But, the syntax for it can be somewhat
>> cryptic.  The first time I tried to use it, it took me about half an
>hour
>> of studying the man page.  To this day, I don't use it frequently
>enough to
>> remember the syntax.  So, every time I want to use it, I have to dig
>out
>> the little piece of paper I wrote the command on, or look up the man
>page
>> again.  Not only that, the starting and ending block numbers are in
>reverse
>> order, ending first, which seems totally illogical to me.
>>
>> It would be far easier for me to open something like gbadblocks
>(making
>> this up), click non destructive read write scan, check off the drives
>or
>> partitions I want to scan, and enter the starting and ending block
>numbers
>> in a blank, and hit GO.  I still have to know something about the
>structure
>> of the disk I want to scan, and the meaning of the options on the
>screen.
>> Built in help could help with that.  But I don't have to spend lots
>of time
>> finding, and remembering, how to activate the command I want.  They
>could
>> even put a blurb on the GUI screen that says more obscure options can
>be
>> accessed via the command line.
>>
>> This is the type of thing that makes the OS far more accessible to
>average
>> and semipro users.  Users that are really not computer literate at
>all will
>> still need help from the geeks.
>>
>> After lunch (for me), I'll do a followup post, and provide a mini
>> comparative analysis of how much control I have over certain system
>> functions via the GUI of Windows 7, Ubuntu 11.04, and Ubuntu 12.04.
>>
>> Again, this is not meant to draw a dividing line between or incite
>> conflict between command-line-fans, text-file-fans, and GUI-fans. 
>It's
>> meant to elaborate on the advantages of having both.
>>
>> Sincerely,
>>
>> Ron
>>
>>
>> Am I overstating how easy this is? Anyone?
>>
>>
>>
>> "Ron Frazier (ALE)"
><atllinuxenthinfo at techstarship.com><atllinuxenthinfo at techstarship.com>wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Jay L, and Jim L,
>>>
>>> Thanks for this info on Cinnamon.  So, it sounds like it's pretty
>easy to put Cinnamon on Ubuntu.  First, I have to upgrade my machines
>to Ubuntu 12.04, which I haven't gotten around to yet.  I'm still
>recovering one of my main machines and installing and tweaking things
>from an upgrade that I did of Windows Vista to Windows 7.  All my data
>is still there, but I had to do a clean OS install because of the
>particular version of Vista and 7 that I was switching between.  So, I
>had to reinstall and reconfigure all the major apps.  So it's a bit of
>a mess.  I may have to do the same thing with all my Ubuntu installs. 
>I don't like that idea, but I've heard more than a few horror stories
>about OS version upgrades, versus installs.  So, in a relatively short
>period of time, I have a whole boat load of OS upgrade / install /
>maintenance to do on multiple
>>> computers ... and there are never enough free hours in the day ...
>particularly with other real life things interfering.  But, al!
>>> l the Linux stuff is on my list.
>>>
>>> Is it just as easy to install Mate as it is Cinnamon?  I may want to
>go in that direction.
>>>
>>> Gnome 2 provides a few key features that I really need in my new
>desktop environment.
>>>
>>> 1) Full hierarchical menu of all major applications on the system
>>> 2) Movable "panels" that I can park on any edge of the screen, to
>hold running apps (taskbar), status info (system tray), quick access
>icons, the menu itself, the trash can, the speaker icon, the network
>icon, etc.
>>> 3) I particularly want to have a small CPU usage monitor graph on
>one of those panels, which I can do now.  In some cases, I also put a
>CPU frequency monitor and a temperature monitor there.
>>>
>>> So, my next question is, can Mate and / or Cinnamon do these things?
>>>
>>> My other concern about the new DE's is
>>>   that
>>> Ubuntu has removed many options from the control panel and gives the
>user much less control over things such as power settings, special
>visual effects settings, etc.
>>>
>>> So, my next question is, do Mate and / or Cinnamon restore this
>control capability to the user?
>>>
>>> And, finally, can I potentially have both Mate and Cinnamon on the
>system and switch between them?
>>>
>>> Sincerely,
>>>
>>> Ron
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Jay Lozier <jslozier at gmail.com> <jslozier at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Ron
>>>>
>>>> Following the links from Linux Mint you get this as the 'buntu
>Cinnamon
>>>>
>>>> repository
>>>> https://launchpad.net/~gwendal-lebihan-dev/+archive/cinnamon-stable
><https://launchpad.net/%7Egwendal-lebihan-dev/+archive/cinnamon-stable>
>>>>
>>>>
><https://launchpad.net/%7Egwendal-lebihan-dev/+archive/cinnamon-stable>
><https://launchpad.net/%7Egwendal-lebihan-dev/+archive/cinnamon-stable%3E>;
>>>>
>>>> The instructions to install are
>>>>
>>>> Add Repo:
>>>> sudo add-apt-repository ppa:gwendal-lebihan-dev/cinnamon-stable
>>>> sudo apt-get update
>>>>
>>>> Install:
>>>> sudo apt-get install cinnamon
>>>> Logout and Change the session to Cinnamon.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 02/01/2013 01:08 PM, Ron Frazier (ALE) wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I wouldn't mind a presentation on Mint, or on installing Mate or
>>>>
>>>> Cinnamon on Ubuntu.  Since my Ubuntu 11.04 expired, I have to
>figure
>>>> out whether to fire them and go to Mint or try to put Mate or
>Cinnamon
>>>> on Ubuntu 12.04.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>
>>>>> Ron
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Jim Lynch <ale_nospam at fayettedigital.com>
><ale_nospam at fayettedigital.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 02/01/2013 08:20 AM, Jim Kinney wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Is mint a desktop or a distro? I would put it in the desktop
>group.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I guess I've never seen a discussion of the difference but since
>>>>>
>>>>> Mint
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> doesn't offer a specific server edition, I'll agree with you.
>Most
>>>>>
>>>>> of
>>>>>
>>>>> Mint specific repos are GUI related.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jim.
>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ale mailing
>listAle at ale.orghttp://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>>>>>> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists
>athttp://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my Android Acer A500 tablet with bluetooth keyboard and
>K-9
>>>>
>>>> Mail.
>>>>>
>>>>> Please excuse my potential brevity.
>>>>>
>>>>> (To whom it may concern.  My email address has changed.  Replying
>to
>>>>
>>>> former
>>>>>
>>>>> messages prior to 03/31/12 with my personal address will go to the
>>>>
>>>> wrong
>>>>>
>>>>> address.  Please send all personal correspondence to the new
>>>>
>>>> address.)
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> (PS - If you email me and don't get a quick response, you might
>want
>>>>
>>>> to
>>>>>
>>>>> call on the phone.  I get about 300 emails per day from alternate
>>>>
>>>> energy
>>>>>
>>>>> mailing lists and such.  I don't always see new email messages
>very
>>>>
>>>> quickly.)<
>>>>  br
>>>> />
>>>>>
>>>>> Ron Frazier770-205-9422 (O)   Leave a message.
>>>>> linuxdude AT techstarship.com
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> Ale mailing
>listAle at ale.orghttp://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>>>>> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists
>athttp://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>
>>> Sent from my Android Acer A500 tablet with bluetooth keyboard and
>K-9 Mail.
>>> Please excuse my potential brevity.
>>>
>>> (To whom it may concern.  My email address has changed.  Replying to
>former
>>> messages prior to 03/31/12 with my personal address will go to the
>wrong
>>> address.  Please send all personal correspondence to the new
>address.)
>>>
>>> (PS - If y
>>>  ou
>>> email me and don't get a quick response, you might want to
>>> call on the phone.  I get about 300 emails per day from alternate
>energy
>>> mailing lists and such.  I don't always see new email messages very
>quickly.)
>>>
>>> Ron Frazier770-205-9422 (O)   Leave a message.
>>> linuxdude AT techstarship.com
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Ale mailing listAle at ale.orghttp://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>>> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists
>athttp://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo
>>>
>>>
>> --
>> Sent from a Linux system.
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Ale mailing list
>> Ale at ale.orghttp://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists
>athttp://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> (To whom it may concern.  My email address has changed.  Replying to
>former
>> messages prior to 03/31/12 with my personal address will go to the
>wrong
>> address.  Please send all personal correspondence to the new
>address.)
>>
>> (PS - If you email me and don't get a quick response, you might want
>to
>> call on the phone.  I get about 300 emails per day from alternate
>energy
>> mailing lists and such.  I don't always see new email messages very
>quickly.)
>>
>> Ron Frazier
>> 770-205-9422 (O)   Leave a message.
>> linuxdude AT techstarship.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Ale mailing list
>> Ale at ale.org
>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at
>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo
>>
>>

--

Sent from my Android Acer A500 tablet with bluetooth keyboard and K-9 Mail.
Please excuse my potential brevity.

(To whom it may concern.  My email address has changed.  Replying to former
messages prior to 03/31/12 with my personal address will go to the wrong
address.  Please send all personal correspondence to the new address.)

(PS - If you email me and don't get a quick response, you might want to
call on the phone.  I get about 300 emails per day from alternate energy
mailing lists and such.  I don't always see new email messages very quickly.)

Ron Frazier
770-205-9422 (O)   Leave a message.
linuxdude AT techstarship.com