[ale] More on LEDs...

Mon Aug 12 08:05:13 EDT 2013

If it says X watts and Y lumens, it's a safe bet that the average
production run will hit those specs. What's harder to gauge is how many
lumens is needed for a task. For that, I would take various bulbs on hand
and test.
Wife groused about the bedside lamp being too dim. I vacuumed the cat fur
off the shade and got a noticeable difference. Seems the black cats have
been polishing the shade on the inside :-)
On Aug 11, 2013 5:21 PM, "Ron Frazier (ALE)" <
atllinuxenthinfo at techstarship.com> wrote:

> Hi Mike W and all,
>
> It's cool to see that you have found the new LED's to be acceptable.
>  These recent developments are very encouraging.  I think that, any time a
> CFL burns out, I may replace it with a LED, although I have a number of
> spare CFL's.  I don't know much about directional lighting though and don't
> think I have any.
>
> Your comments prompted me to do some additional research.
>
> In the previous discussion, I was encouraged to look at these things in
> terms of lumens rather than incandescent wattage equivalent.  This is very
> difficult, but obviously desirable.  One reason it's difficult is that I
> have no sense of how many lumens light an area, but I do have a sense of
> how many watts do so.  I guess this is just a matter of practice.
>
> I dug up these articles:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/**LED_lamp<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LED_lamp>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/**Fluorescent_lamp<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluorescent_lamp>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/**Fluorescent_lamp_formats<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluorescent_lamp_formats>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/**Incandescent_light_bulb<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incandescent_light_bulb>
>
> These have lots of good info, although some of the info in one article is
> questioned.  In general, I think wikipedia is a good source.
>
> The other reason that it's hard to think in lumens is that there is lots
> of marketing BS out there.
>
> To help, I made the following from a chart in the incandescent lamp
> article.  This shows the lumen output of each type of each standard
> incandescent bulb.  I don't know where they got the data, but the numbers
> seem reasonable.  I've added a third column that computes the numbers for
> an acceptable 10% variance from the norm, when considering whether an LED
> light bulb is indeed equivalent to an incandescent bulb of X wattage.
>
> Incandescent Bulb Output Chart
>
> Power (W) ----- Output (lm) ----- Acceptable +/- 10%
> 5         -----   25        -----   23 -   28
> 15        -----  110        -----   99 -  121
> 25        -----  200        -----  180 -  220
> 40        -----  500        -----  450 -  550
> 60        -----  850        -----  765 -  935
> 75        ----- 1200        ----- 1080 - 1320
> 100       ----- 1700        ----- 1530 - 1870
> 150       ----- 2850        ----- 2565 - 3135
>
> So, if I'm buying a bulb that claims to be 60 W equivalent, it should be
> between 765 and 935 lumens.  If it's outside this range, I'm going to avoid
> buying it and assume the manufacturer is trying to mislead the customer by
> making them think they're getting more light than they really will.  I saw
> some 40 W equivalent candelabra bulbs that output 300 lumens.  I would not
> buy those as I consider the labeling misleading.
>
> When I mentioned the possibility of replacing the 4' FL tubes we have, my
> wife said don't bother.  The fixtures are ugly.  Just replace the whole
> thing.  I guess she's got a point.  I think I'll defer that till later.
>  New 4 - 6 bulb fixtures and 4 - 6 LED's would probably cost me $ 200 - $
> 300.
>
> I need to find a place to recycle 4' FL tubes and 8-9" circle FL tubes.
>
> If the packaging on a bulb doesn't tell the color temperature (2700 K is
> soft white) and the lifespan in hours or something that's convertible to
> hours and doesn't say if it's dimmable, I'd probably avoid it.  As others
> mentioned previously in the other thread, you might also have to consider
> if they're rated for enclosed use and if they are orientation sensitive.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Ron
>
>
> On 8/11/2013 1:52 PM, Michael H. Warfield wrote:
>
>> Hey we all had a lively discussion a while back about lighting class
>> LEDs.  Just thought I would follow up and report my latest experience.
>>
>> Our kitchen was remodeled years ago with 4 recessed R40 can lights on a
>> dimmer.  We've used dimmable CFLs in them since and have gone through a
>> number of them.  So, yet another one burned out (they start to flicker
>> badly before they completely die).  Ran out to Home Depot and bought
>> another matching 20W (85W equiv 900 lumen) CFL but also bought a close
>> equivalent Philips R40 14.5W 800 lumen LED.  I bought the CFL just in
>> case the LED didn't match the other three lights closely enough for
>> June's taste.  :-)
>>
>> Numbers...
>>
>> CFL: $12
>> 900 lumens
>> 20W
>> 7.3 years life expectancy (based on 3 hours per day).
>>
>> LED: $35
>> 800 lumens
>> 14.5W
>> 22 years life expectancy (based on 3 hours per day).
>>
>> Both bulbs 2700 degree color temp.
>> Both bulbs dimmable.
>>
>> Oh, my...  Based on life expectancy (3 CFLs == 1 LED) they are almost
>> identically priced with the LED slightly cheaper.  You've just got that
>> upfront cost but, then, it's 1/3 the number of bulbs to change and buy
>> at the store...
>>
>> Now...  Subjectively...  That 800 lumen bulb matches up to the 900 lumen
>> CFLs in the other 3 cans almost perfectly (color temp and brightness).
>> Again, subjectively, it actually looks to be slightly brighter and the
>> face of the bulb is uniformly clean and white and looks more pleasing to
>> me than the encased tubes of the CFLs.  The bulb is specifically
>> designed for "down lighting" like these can lights (it's right on the
>> packaging).  June is delighted with it.  I think I've bought my last
>> CFL.
>>
>> So, to date, I've now replaced standard bulb shaped bulbs with LEDs and
>> candelabra based bulbs in ceiling fans with LEDs and now dimmable CFLs
>> in recessed can lights with LEDs.  The only thing left around this joint
>> now are the full sized 4' fluorescent bulbs.
>>
>> In my book, LEDs have arrived.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Mike
>>
>>
>
>
> --
>
> (PS - If you email me and don't get a quick response, you might want to
> call on the phone.  I get about 300 emails per day from alternate energy
> mailing lists and such.  I don't always see new email messages very
> quickly.)
>
> Ron Frazier
> 770-205-9422 (O)   Leave a message.
> linuxdude AT techstarship.com
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