[ale] Linux alternative recommendation ?
Courtney Thomas
courtneycthomas at bellsouth.net
Mon Oct 24 15:14:46 EDT 2011
Ron,
What is your take on SSDs vs HDDs ?
Thanks again,
C.Thomas
On 10/24/2011 1:47 PM, Ron Frazier wrote:
> There are a couple of benefits to "rolling your own" external drive.
> It is frequently the case that the prefab drive in a case type of
> packages don't have adequate cooling. While the compact DIY
> enclosures for 2.5" drives usually don't have fans inside, good ones
> are made of aluminum, which has good heat dissipation. Bigger
> enclosures sometimes have fans. Western Digital had problems a few
> years ago with their packaged drive in a case (my book, passbook,
> whatever it's called). The drives would fry themselves to death.
> Then you have to fret with RMAing the thing. If you open the case,
> you void the warranty, and I don't think they had a 5 year warranty.
> If you choose carefully, you can get a bare HDD with a 5 year
> warranty. Then you can switch it in and out of cases as you see fit.
> You can also upgrade it to a larger drive if you choose, and not worry
> about voiding the warranty.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Ron
>
> On 10/24/2011 1:21 PM, Greg Clifton wrote:
>> Courtney,
>>
>> Regarding booting from CD (live CD) forgetaboutit. As previously
>> mentioned, it will be slow to boot and execute and you will have no
>> swap or permanent storage (no suspend to disc). Further, a lost,
>> broken or scratched disc would stop you dead. Much better to run from
>> tumb drive or external 2.5" drive if you prefer. Depending on the age
>> your notebook it should have USB 2.0 but if older, my be USB 1.0. If
>> you have USB 1.0, little will be gained by either a SSD or the
>> Seagate Hybrid drive previously mentioned because you will be I/O
>> bound by the bottleneck of the 1.0 USB bandwidth. Even with USB 2.0,
>> I'm not sure you would gain much from a SSD over USB. You can buy
>> nice 500GB to 1TB external 2.5" drives for $100 or less these days
>> and that will give you plenty of room to play with various distros,
>> etc. Furthermore, 2.5" drives are inherently more robust than 3.5"
>> drives (smaller platters flutter less). If you should choose the
>> route of "rolling your own" with an enclosure which you install your
>> own drive into, get one of the G-Shock type drives so that it will
>> auto park if the drive happens to get knocked off the desktop while
>> in operation. You might recall that IBM had a great commercial
>> touting that technology a few years ago before they sold their
>> notebook business to Lenovo.
>> Regards,
>> Greg Clifton
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 11:44 AM, Courtney Thomas
>> <courtneycthomas at bellsouth.net
>> <mailto:courtneycthomas at bellsouth.net>> wrote:
>>
>> Ron,
>>
>> Thanks for the extensive replies.
>>
>> What would be the downside of using live CDs for various OSes and an
>> external HD for data ?
>>
>> Appreciatively,
>>
>> Courtney
>>
>> On 10/24/2011 10:53 AM, Ron Frazier wrote:
>> > Courtney,
>> >
>> > Here's my opinion of the pros and cons of HDD versus Flash (memory
>> > stick). I don't know anything about (old style) ZIP drives,
>> but I think
>> > they're pretty much obsolete. I'm not sure if that's what you
>> meant.
>> >
>> > HDD Pros:
>> >
>> > lots of storage
>> > cheap price
>> > could possibly convert to using the drive
>> internally in the
>> > laptop
>> > could use the drive later to backup your PC
>> > more likely to be able to dual boot / multi boot
>> >
>> > HDD Cons:
>> >
>> > subject to mechanical damage (don't smack or drop it)
>> > usually requires 2 USB ports
>> > heavier
>> > more bulky
>> > requires more power (reduces battery run time)
>> > slower (caveat - as mentioned in my other post, the
>> USB speed
>> > may be the limiting factor)
>> >
>> > Flash (memory stick) Pros:
>> >
>> > small
>> > light
>> > requires only one USB port
>> > draws less power (increases battery run time)
>> > does not require an enclosure
>> > faster (subject to limits of USB speed)
>> >
>> > Flash (memory stick) Cons:
>> >
>> > less storage space
>> > more money per GB
>> > harder to dual boot / multi boot (because of
>> smaller storage
>> > capacity)
>> > easier to lose or misplace
>> > long term longevity is questionable (in my opinion)
>> > subject to electronic damage (static)
>> > (Have you ever walked across a carpet in the
>> winter,
>> > touched a doorknob, and gotten a spark on your finger?)
>> > (If you ever do something that sparks to the
>> memory
>> > stick, even if you don't know it, it will probably destroy it.)
>> > (I would say the memory stick is less likely
>> to incur
>> > damage while traveling than the HDD.)
>> >
>> >
>> > Regarding CD's, if you install your OS to the external HDD, you
>> can boot
>> > directly from it if your PC has the capability to boot from
>> USB. You
>> > don't need a CD. Also, another option is to put multiple operating
>> > systems on your internal HDD. This is what I do. All my PC's
>> can dual
>> > boot between Linux and Windows. You could potentially boot between
>> > multiple versions of Linux as well.
>> >
>> > Sincerely,
>> >
>> > Ron
>> >
>> >
>> > On 10/24/2011 3:40 AM, Courtney Thomas wrote:
>> >> Ron,
>> >>
>> >> Thank you for all the important concerns unconsidered by me at
>> this
>> >> point, but it sounds like... I might be better advised to use
>> live CD
>> >> distros with a portable HD (rather than zip drives) for
>> reliability and
>> >> space.
>> >>
>> >> If true, what am I giving up if going that route ? Speed ?
>> >>
>> >> Gratefully,
>> >>
>> >> Courtney
>> >>
>> >> On 10/23/2011 12:37 PM, Ron Frazier wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Courtney,
>> >>>
>> >>> What I'm discussing relates to using a memory stick for your
>> purpose.
>> >>> Most of it won't apply if using a HDD for storage. I will
>> freely admit
>> >>> to not being an expert in booting from a flash memory stick.
>> However,
>> >>> here are some things to think about. You probably want a
>> high speed
>> >>> memory stick. They have different class numbers. Higher is
>> better, and
>> >>> they don't always say on the label. I don't have the numbers
>> >>> memorized. Get something of high quality. Pony up a few
>> extra dollars
>> >>> for something with a 5 year warranty, rather than a 1 year.
>> (That would
>> >>> apply to a HDD too.) The device should have built in wear
>> leveling, and
>> >>> should have SLC memory circuits which have greater longevity.
>> This is
>> >>> also not usually on the label. Flash memory cells can only
>> be written a
>> >>> certain number of times before they degrade. When I was
>> teaching at a
>> >>> technical college, I always told the students not to rely on
>> a memory
>> >>> stick for permanent storage. They can flake out sometimes.
>> The other
>> >>> thread I had posted about my relative wanting to recover
>> photos is an
>> >>> example. Obviously, storing an OS on the thing is a more
>> permanent
>> >>> application, and you don't want any bits suddenly going
>> missing. I
>> >>> would back up the entire memory stick from one to another
>> periodically,
>> >>> which would get the OS as well as all your data. (This also
>> would apply
>> >>> to a HDD.)
>> >>>
>> >>> Here are a few items the Linux gurus here (I'm not one) may
>> wish to
>> >>> address. You may not want a swap partition or file, since a
>> swap area
>> >>> will pound the memory stick very hard if the system get's low on
>> >>> resources. There are pros and cons either way. Without
>> swap, if you
>> >>> boot a PC with low RAM, and run too many things, the OS may
>> crash.
>> >>> Also, you may wish to disable write caching to reduce the
>> likelihood of
>> >>> damaging the OS if the memory stick is removed without safely
>> ejecting
>> >>> it. The USB port may automatically disable write caching, I
>> don't know
>> >>> about that.
>> >>>
>> >>> In the past, I've heard of people running Linux on a memory
>> stick and
>> >>> burning out the stick within a few months. That was a while
>> back, so
>> >>> I'm not sure how the modern technology affects these issues.
>> Makers of
>> >>> memory sticks, and SSD's, now say cell wear is not a problem.
>> That may
>> >>> or may not be true, but I'm not totally convinced. While I
>> would like
>> >>> to have an SSD, I'm not yet convinced that they can last 5 -
>> 15 years,
>> >>> the way a properly maintained and not mechanically damaged
>> HDD can.
>> >>>
>> >>> Sincerely,
>> >>>
>> >>> Ron
>> >>>
>> >>> On 10/23/2011 11:42 AM, D. Marshall Lemcoe Jr. wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> There are some very fine 32GB and 64GB in the sub-$100 price
>> range and
>> >>>> anything will suit a live-key. if you're going to be
>> traveling, the
>> >>>> USB flash drive will be your better bet because there is no
>> chance of
>> >>>> it breaking like a regular HDD might.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> As for the distribution, I would recommend something that
>> doesn't take
>> >>>> a lot of setup and configuration to use, like Ubuntu or Fedora.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On Sun, Oct 23, 2011 at 10:17 AM, Jim
>> Kinney<jim.kinney at gmail.com <mailto:jim.kinney at gmail.com>> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> With the cost of removable media what it is, it's feasable
>> to have several
>> >>>>> distros on a 250GB drive all sharing a /home and selectable
>> at boot from
>> >>>>> grub.
>> >>>>> Or carry a selection of live CD/DVD media and a thumb drive
>> for storage.
>> >>>>> This is easier unless the laptop has no cd drive. Older
>> laptops may not be
>> >>>>> able to boot from usb.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> On Oct 23, 2011 9:41 AM, "Richard
>> Faulkner"<rfaulkner at 34thprs.org <mailto:rfaulkner at 34thprs.org>>
>> wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>> What is the most important feature of the OS? Security?
>> Media support?
>> >>>>>> Something basic or something w/everything not nailed down?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>> >>>>>> From: Richard Bronosky<Richard at Bronosky.com>
>> >>>>>> Reply-to: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts<ale at ale.org
>> <mailto:ale at ale.org>>
>> >>>>>> To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts<ale at ale.org
>> <mailto:ale at ale.org>>
>> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [ale] Linux alternative recommendation ?
>> >>>>>> Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2011 09:02:53 -0400
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> How much storage do you need? Could a flash drive work?
>> 32G or 64G?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> On Oct 23, 2011 8:27 AM, "Courtney
>> Thomas"<courtneycthomas at bellsouth.net
>> <mailto:courtneycthomas at bellsouth.net>>
>> >>>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> I'd like to carry a portable Linux USB HD installation for
>> traveling
>> >>>>>> with my laptop and would appreciate suggestions, not only
>> for which
>> >>>>>> Linux flavor but also which drive.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Thanks,
>> >>>>>> C.Thomas
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>>
>
>
> --
>
> (PS - If you email me and don't get a quick response, you might want to
> call on the phone. I get about 300 emails per day from alternate energy
> mailing lists and such. I don't always see new messages very quickly.)
>
> Ron Frazier
>
> 770-205-9422 (O) Leave a message.
> linuxdude AT c3energy.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at
> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20111024/b811a411/attachment-0001.html
More information about the Ale
mailing list