[ale] Linux alternative recommendation ?
Ron Frazier
atllinuxenthinfo at c3energy.com
Mon Oct 24 13:47:43 EDT 2011
There are a couple of benefits to "rolling your own" external drive. It
is frequently the case that the prefab drive in a case type of packages
don't have adequate cooling. While the compact DIY enclosures for 2.5"
drives usually don't have fans inside, good ones are made of aluminum,
which has good heat dissipation. Bigger enclosures sometimes have
fans. Western Digital had problems a few years ago with their packaged
drive in a case (my book, passbook, whatever it's called). The drives
would fry themselves to death. Then you have to fret with RMAing the
thing. If you open the case, you void the warranty, and I don't think
they had a 5 year warranty. If you choose carefully, you can get a bare
HDD with a 5 year warranty. Then you can switch it in and out of cases
as you see fit. You can also upgrade it to a larger drive if you
choose, and not worry about voiding the warranty.
Sincerely,
Ron
On 10/24/2011 1:21 PM, Greg Clifton wrote:
> Courtney,
>
> Regarding booting from CD (live CD) forgetaboutit. As previously
> mentioned, it will be slow to boot and execute and you will have no
> swap or permanent storage (no suspend to disc). Further, a lost,
> broken or scratched disc would stop you dead. Much better to run from
> tumb drive or external 2.5" drive if you prefer. Depending on the age
> your notebook it should have USB 2.0 but if older, my be USB 1.0. If
> you have USB 1.0, little will be gained by either a SSD or the Seagate
> Hybrid drive previously mentioned because you will be I/O bound by the
> bottleneck of the 1.0 USB bandwidth. Even with USB 2.0, I'm not sure
> you would gain much from a SSD over USB. You can buy nice 500GB to 1TB
> external 2.5" drives for $100 or less these days and that will give
> you plenty of room to play with various distros, etc. Furthermore,
> 2.5" drives are inherently more robust than 3.5" drives (smaller
> platters flutter less). If you should choose the route of "rolling
> your own" with an enclosure which you install your own drive into, get
> one of the G-Shock type drives so that it will auto park if the drive
> happens to get knocked off the desktop while in operation. You might
> recall that IBM had a great commercial touting that technology a few
> years ago before they sold their notebook business to Lenovo.
> Regards,
> Greg Clifton
>
> On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 11:44 AM, Courtney Thomas
> <courtneycthomas at bellsouth.net <mailto:courtneycthomas at bellsouth.net>>
> wrote:
>
> Ron,
>
> Thanks for the extensive replies.
>
> What would be the downside of using live CDs for various OSes and an
> external HD for data ?
>
> Appreciatively,
>
> Courtney
>
> On 10/24/2011 10:53 AM, Ron Frazier wrote:
> > Courtney,
> >
> > Here's my opinion of the pros and cons of HDD versus Flash (memory
> > stick). I don't know anything about (old style) ZIP drives, but
> I think
> > they're pretty much obsolete. I'm not sure if that's what you
> meant.
> >
> > HDD Pros:
> >
> > lots of storage
> > cheap price
> > could possibly convert to using the drive internally
> in the
> > laptop
> > could use the drive later to backup your PC
> > more likely to be able to dual boot / multi boot
> >
> > HDD Cons:
> >
> > subject to mechanical damage (don't smack or drop it)
> > usually requires 2 USB ports
> > heavier
> > more bulky
> > requires more power (reduces battery run time)
> > slower (caveat - as mentioned in my other post, the
> USB speed
> > may be the limiting factor)
> >
> > Flash (memory stick) Pros:
> >
> > small
> > light
> > requires only one USB port
> > draws less power (increases battery run time)
> > does not require an enclosure
> > faster (subject to limits of USB speed)
> >
> > Flash (memory stick) Cons:
> >
> > less storage space
> > more money per GB
> > harder to dual boot / multi boot (because of smaller
> storage
> > capacity)
> > easier to lose or misplace
> > long term longevity is questionable (in my opinion)
> > subject to electronic damage (static)
> > (Have you ever walked across a carpet in the
> winter,
> > touched a doorknob, and gotten a spark on your finger?)
> > (If you ever do something that sparks to the memory
> > stick, even if you don't know it, it will probably destroy it.)
> > (I would say the memory stick is less likely to
> incur
> > damage while traveling than the HDD.)
> >
> >
> > Regarding CD's, if you install your OS to the external HDD, you
> can boot
> > directly from it if your PC has the capability to boot from USB.
> You
> > don't need a CD. Also, another option is to put multiple operating
> > systems on your internal HDD. This is what I do. All my PC's
> can dual
> > boot between Linux and Windows. You could potentially boot between
> > multiple versions of Linux as well.
> >
> > Sincerely,
> >
> > Ron
> >
> >
> > On 10/24/2011 3:40 AM, Courtney Thomas wrote:
> >> Ron,
> >>
> >> Thank you for all the important concerns unconsidered by me at this
> >> point, but it sounds like... I might be better advised to use
> live CD
> >> distros with a portable HD (rather than zip drives) for
> reliability and
> >> space.
> >>
> >> If true, what am I giving up if going that route ? Speed ?
> >>
> >> Gratefully,
> >>
> >> Courtney
> >>
> >> On 10/23/2011 12:37 PM, Ron Frazier wrote:
> >>
> >>> Courtney,
> >>>
> >>> What I'm discussing relates to using a memory stick for your
> purpose.
> >>> Most of it won't apply if using a HDD for storage. I will
> freely admit
> >>> to not being an expert in booting from a flash memory stick.
> However,
> >>> here are some things to think about. You probably want a high
> speed
> >>> memory stick. They have different class numbers. Higher is
> better, and
> >>> they don't always say on the label. I don't have the numbers
> >>> memorized. Get something of high quality. Pony up a few
> extra dollars
> >>> for something with a 5 year warranty, rather than a 1 year.
> (That would
> >>> apply to a HDD too.) The device should have built in wear
> leveling, and
> >>> should have SLC memory circuits which have greater longevity.
> This is
> >>> also not usually on the label. Flash memory cells can only be
> written a
> >>> certain number of times before they degrade. When I was
> teaching at a
> >>> technical college, I always told the students not to rely on a
> memory
> >>> stick for permanent storage. They can flake out sometimes.
> The other
> >>> thread I had posted about my relative wanting to recover
> photos is an
> >>> example. Obviously, storing an OS on the thing is a more
> permanent
> >>> application, and you don't want any bits suddenly going
> missing. I
> >>> would back up the entire memory stick from one to another
> periodically,
> >>> which would get the OS as well as all your data. (This also
> would apply
> >>> to a HDD.)
> >>>
> >>> Here are a few items the Linux gurus here (I'm not one) may
> wish to
> >>> address. You may not want a swap partition or file, since a
> swap area
> >>> will pound the memory stick very hard if the system get's low on
> >>> resources. There are pros and cons either way. Without swap,
> if you
> >>> boot a PC with low RAM, and run too many things, the OS may crash.
> >>> Also, you may wish to disable write caching to reduce the
> likelihood of
> >>> damaging the OS if the memory stick is removed without safely
> ejecting
> >>> it. The USB port may automatically disable write caching, I
> don't know
> >>> about that.
> >>>
> >>> In the past, I've heard of people running Linux on a memory
> stick and
> >>> burning out the stick within a few months. That was a while
> back, so
> >>> I'm not sure how the modern technology affects these issues.
> Makers of
> >>> memory sticks, and SSD's, now say cell wear is not a problem.
> That may
> >>> or may not be true, but I'm not totally convinced. While I
> would like
> >>> to have an SSD, I'm not yet convinced that they can last 5 -
> 15 years,
> >>> the way a properly maintained and not mechanically damaged HDD
> can.
> >>>
> >>> Sincerely,
> >>>
> >>> Ron
> >>>
> >>> On 10/23/2011 11:42 AM, D. Marshall Lemcoe Jr. wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> There are some very fine 32GB and 64GB in the sub-$100 price
> range and
> >>>> anything will suit a live-key. if you're going to be
> traveling, the
> >>>> USB flash drive will be your better bet because there is no
> chance of
> >>>> it breaking like a regular HDD might.
> >>>>
> >>>> As for the distribution, I would recommend something that
> doesn't take
> >>>> a lot of setup and configuration to use, like Ubuntu or Fedora.
> >>>>
> >>>> On Sun, Oct 23, 2011 at 10:17 AM, Jim
> Kinney<jim.kinney at gmail.com <mailto:jim.kinney at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> With the cost of removable media what it is, it's feasable
> to have several
> >>>>> distros on a 250GB drive all sharing a /home and selectable
> at boot from
> >>>>> grub.
> >>>>> Or carry a selection of live CD/DVD media and a thumb drive
> for storage.
> >>>>> This is easier unless the laptop has no cd drive. Older
> laptops may not be
> >>>>> able to boot from usb.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Oct 23, 2011 9:41 AM, "Richard
> Faulkner"<rfaulkner at 34thprs.org <mailto:rfaulkner at 34thprs.org>>
> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> What is the most important feature of the OS? Security?
> Media support?
> >>>>>> Something basic or something w/everything not nailed down?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>> From: Richard Bronosky<Richard at Bronosky.com>
> >>>>>> Reply-to: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts<ale at ale.org
> <mailto:ale at ale.org>>
> >>>>>> To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts<ale at ale.org <mailto:ale at ale.org>>
> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [ale] Linux alternative recommendation ?
> >>>>>> Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2011 09:02:53 -0400
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> How much storage do you need? Could a flash drive work? 32G
> or 64G?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Oct 23, 2011 8:27 AM, "Courtney
> Thomas"<courtneycthomas at bellsouth.net
> <mailto:courtneycthomas at bellsouth.net>>
> >>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I'd like to carry a portable Linux USB HD installation for
> traveling
> >>>>>> with my laptop and would appreciate suggestions, not only
> for which
> >>>>>> Linux flavor but also which drive.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Thanks,
> >>>>>> C.Thomas
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
>
--
(PS - If you email me and don't get a quick response, you might want to
call on the phone. I get about 300 emails per day from alternate energy
mailing lists and such. I don't always see new messages very quickly.)
Ron Frazier
770-205-9422 (O) Leave a message.
linuxdude AT c3energy.com
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