[ale] Kind words for Windows? - was The latest from Gigabyte

[Ron Frazier]

Hi JD,

See comments inline.


On 02/08/2011 09:38 AM, JD wrote:
> If you have a complaint about a specific program, you should file a bug
> with the development team using their bug tracking system.  Please start
> with Audible.com, Sansa and TomTom.  Ranting about it here in a
> non-focused way feels better, but does it really help?
>
>    
OK, I'm ranting, but not JUST ranting. I may be able to find the time to 
contact some of these various people, but I don't know if I'll have the 
time to contact them all. I do want actually finish configuring the 
computer so I can work on the computer. Not only that, there are 
influential members of the local Linux community on this list and some 
are on the development teams of some open source projects. So, the 
ranting may allow some of those people to help improve Linux overall. 
And, yes, I wanted to get some things off my chest.
> I find that patching 20+ Linux machines takes significantly less time
> than patching 3 MS-Windows machines. I use the shell, not some GUI.
> Perhaps you would be more efficient with at the shell too?
>
>    
I already said Linux had an advantage over Windows in terms of 
maintenance. I'm always willing to learn to be more efficient. I have to 
keep one foot in Windows land though.
> Many of the other issues below seem to be self inflicted due to your
> background running MS-Windows. The philosophies of MS-Windows and *NIX
> are different, so the best ways to accomplish a particular task may be
> different too. Embrace the *NIX way and you'll see how to get 50-90%
> more useful work our of your computers.  It all starts with learning to
> love the shell interface.
>
>    
I've been around the block with the DOS command line, text editors, 
config files, and registry editor (Not technically a command line, but 
technically demanding). I might learn to tolerate the shell and work 
with the shell. I don't know if I'll ever love it. I'm not convinced 
that the NIX way is the best way, in this particular instance. As an 
example, I'd much rather set up the swap file by clicking a check box, 
typing a number into a form, and clicking OK, then rebooting, the way I 
did in Windows; rather than the way I had to do it in Ubuntu, as 
detailed in other posts. Just my opinion. I'm sure there are other 
times, when it would be a good idea to use the shell.
> BTW, I'm constantly "self inflicting" pain on MS-Windows. It simply
> doesn't work the way I think it should. Inefficiencies all over the
> place, all that pointing and clicking in different places every time.
> Menus changing for no good reason to confuse me.  That is considered
> "more advanced" by some? No thanks.
>
>    
You have some good points.
> Lastly, put down that mouse. Place your index fingers on "f" and "j".
> Begin computing.  ;)
>
>    
I must be a pretty good typist to post all these messages. 8-)

Ron
>
> On 02/08/2011 01:25 AM, Ron Frazier wrote:
>    
>> Hi all,
>>
>> The line I'm quoting from Chris Fowler (below) inspired this note. If
>> you're offended, blame me, not him. But, I hope no one will be offended,
>> just spurred to thought. But, lots of it is just some random things I've
>> been thinking about, and maybe ranting for frustration about some
>> problems I've been trying to solve. I'm not trying to start a flame war,
>> but, I've been using Windows ever since it was invented. Modern versions
>> of Windows are very slick, refined, functional, and, most of the time,
>> reliable. In some ways, particularly in terms of user interface, it's
>> more advanced than the Ubuntu I'm typing this on. In some cases, I can
>> do maintenance procedures on Windows MUCH easier than I can in Linux, as
>> I've detailed to some extent in other posts.
>>
>> I'm here, basically trying to use Linux 98% of the time, for 4 reasons.
>> They are, in no particular order:
>>
>> 1) Intellectual challenge. I love to learn new things, most of the time,
>> and maybe, there might be some usable job skills I'll gain.
>>
>> 2) Windows cost, for a new PC, this is only about $ 30 - $ 50. If you
>> want to buy a copy for a build your own pc or do an upgrade, it's more
>> expensive.
>>
>> 3) Maintenance issues. Tomorrow is the 2nd Tuesday, Microsoft patch day.
>> So, I need to update the Windows side of my dual boot computers as well
>> as family members' computers. Ubuntu is similar in the number of
>> patches. I'm getting flagged by the updater every few days, and
>> sometimes there are quite a few patches. Linux is able to update without
>> a reboot more often than Windows but it certainly is not always the
>> case. Probably 1 out of 3 or 4 patch cycles asks me for a reboot.
>>
>> The package manager in Ubuntu is what I think is a great advantage over
>> Windows. In Windows, I have to update (separately) the system, non MS AV
>> system, Java, Firefox, Firefox addons, Adobe Reader, Adobe Flash,
>> Itunes, and basically anything else that connects to the Internet. It's
>> great to know that everything I've installed using the package manager
>> in Ubuntu will be updated. However, this doesn't apply to things I've
>> installed separately. So, after I'm done updating Windows, I'll do a few
>> housekeeping things on Ubuntu (on 3 computers) including: force a system
>> update via the Updater tool, update the Firefox addons, check the
>> Firefox options configuration in case something got changed, check Flash
>> rev level and configuration, and check the Java rev level. The versions
>> of these in the Ubuntu repositories sometimes lag behind the
>> manufacturers' versions, but I don't want to override the install
>> manually since Synaptic may no longer handle the updates. Usually,
>> they're not too far behind though. There are a few apps which I couldn't
>> install from the repositories, and I may have to update them manually.
>>
>> Whether Windows or Linux, I try to do periodic disk integrity checks and
>> backups. With 3 dual boot PC's of my own, plus my Son's and Dad's
>> Windows machines, this all adds up to a lot of work.
>>
>> 4) Security! This is the big one. This is one of the main reasons I'm
>> now mostly a Linux user. There are just too many security risks with
>> Windows. Now, in fairness, if Linux had a billion users, and if the
>> hackers had a financial incentive to hack it, you'd see a lot more Linux
>> viruses. Yes, I know we can debate endlessly about which system is more
>> secure, and Linux certainly has it's merits. A well patched and
>> protected Windows system is one of the most secure platforms, akin (I
>> have read), to a condo in the city with bars on the windows (no pun
>> intended). Mac is like a normal house in a suburb, and Linux is like the
>> farmhouse 20 miles in the woods. Linux is safer, to some extent, because
>> it's not as big a target. However, no OS is immune to attack,
>> particularly if the user clicks on a malicious binary file as a result
>> of a phishing attack. A poorly patched or poorly configured Linux system
>> can certainly be vulnerable.
>>
>> But, nevertheless, the lack of security problems is one big reason I'm
>> running Linux. At the moment, I'm not running anti virus on Linux, but I
>> am running the firewall using Firestarter. At some time in the future, I
>> may find it necessary to run anti virus.
>>
>> Whether on Linux or Windows, I run the NoScript addon for Firefox, which
>> disallows all scripting except for sites I explicitly trust. I think
>> that's only prudent. Combine that with Xmarks, and you can save the
>> NoScript configuration in a bookmark and make it common across all your
>> computers, Windows and Linux. That works really well.
>>
>> -1) Here's NOT a reason I'm using Linux - ease of use. (This echos the
>> sentiment in a recent letter to the editor in Linux Journal.) Frankly,
>> most of the time it's similar to Windows, sometimes it's worse. I
>> wouldn't recommend it to my Dad, unless I was still around to do setup,
>> maintenance, and troubleshooting. Ubuntu 10.04, which I'm running, is
>> the first Linux I've tried which just worked on the hardware I have.
>> (Tried previous Ubuntu. Haven't tried other distros.) Even then, I had
>> to load some proprietary drivers, but I'm OK with that. On a day to day
>> basis, Gnome is fine, and it does what I need. However, there have been
>> a number of times, witnessed by my calls for help on this forum, when
>> Ubuntu has driven me up the wall and crazy trying to do some maintenance
>> procedure or configuration. At those times, I have to go scrounging
>> through Google, forums, man pages, config files, and command lines. Now,
>> I can edit config files and scrounge for info with the best if I have
>> to, and I've done plenty of that in Windows over the last 26 years. But,
>> I believe that should be a rare occurrence, not a frequent one.
>>
>> Here are some examples of comparative experiences with Windows and
>> Linux. In general, I want to keep my Windows installs and Linux installs
>> functionally equivalent. In every case, the experience was harder with
>> Linux, and in some cases, I have no solution. Now, my intent is not to
>> rag on Linux, but a lot of people like to rag on Windows. Both are
>> tools, they have pros and cons. These are just examples, and I'm sure
>> I'll ask for help in other posts, so that's not my purpose here.
>>
>> * Plugging external monitor into laptop screws up screen resolution and
>> scrambles my icons.
>> Windows - does just fine
>> Linux - problem exists, no solution yet - reads monitor capabilities wrong
>>
>> * Desire to have fine grained control over shutdown sequence on battery
>> power when battery is low.
>> Windows - built into OS, set up parameters in minutes via GUI
>> Linux - have to install UPS control daemon - options thus far seem very
>> non obvious - few GUI's to set them up
>>
>> * Desired to run all my email on the same system. Now using Eudora OSE.
>> Windows - setup was easy and quick - double click the EXE - found my old
>> email database (from Eudora Classic) and imported - (That WASN'T quick -
>> 12 hours.)
>> Linux - setup more difficult - required running a script to install -
>> not available in repository - didn't find old database and gave no
>> choice for manual selection - program must be run from a terminal window
>> (no Double click) - I had to figure out how to put a launcher icon on
>> the desktop (should be automatic) - terminal remains open all the time
>> for whatever reason
>>
>> * Desire to be able to clone my hard drive as a backup, then just
>> install it if the main HDD dies.
>> Windows - I have a nice, sophisticated, GUI based backup tool (not free)
>> - Acronis TrueImage - I have no problem paying for good quality software
>> if I have to. People deserve to be compensated for their work. Of
>> course, if people choose to put forth a good quality free tool, like
>> this email program, I'll use it.
>> Linux - haven't found a comparable Linux tool yet - used TrueImage to
>> clone the drive and install it for testing - Windows boots fine - Linux
>> fails to find it's swap partition - I resort to a swap file - GRUB
>> freaks out the next time it updates and demands that I tell it where to
>> put itself (I'll tell it - @#*&%*! Bang! Zoom!)
>>
>> * Desire to have my HotSpotVPN account active, so my public browsing at
>> hotspots is encrypted.
>> Windows - Relatively painless. Required running two install programs.
>> Boom. Up and running.
>> Linux - haven't succeeded or really even tried yet - read the procedure
>> once - gave me a headache - not automatic - many steps - have to run
>> from terminal
>>
>> * Possibly want to TrueCrypt the drive to make it look like gibberish to
>> thieves and nosy govt agencies.
>> Windows - I hear it's pretty easy.
>> Linux - don't even want to think about it, but I don't know what's involved.
>>
>> Oh, here are a few more. Some of these I may be able to run under Wine,
>> some not.
>>
>> * Audible books - Linux cannot do it
>> * Sansa Fuze+ MP3 Player - updater and media converter - Linux cannot do it
>> * TomTom GPS - updater - Linux cannot do it
>> * Evernote - online notes system - Linux cannot do it - OLD one works in
>> Wine
>> * MetaTrader 4 - currency trading software - Linux cannot do it - works
>> in Wine
>>
>> You get the idea. Now, I intend to stick with Linux, and I intend to get
>> these problems solved. Since I'm a geeky kind of guy, and I'm tenacious,
>> AND since I have lots of GREAT friends on this forum to run to for help,
>> I can probably get it done. However, the average Joe on the street won't
>> be so able or willing to work through these problems. He'll just use
>> what he knows works, and what he knows he can call several people for
>> help, and what's easy and available - Windows or Mac.
>>
>> So, I hope this hasn't offended anyone. I also hope that Windows and Mac
>> will draw on the strengths that Linux has AND I hope that Linux will
>> draw on the strengths that Windows and Mac have, and that all the
>> systems will improve. Of course, I'd like to see more people using open
>> source software.
>>
>> Ron
>>
>>
>> On 02/07/2011 10:21 PM, Chris Fowler wrote:
>>      
>>> You will not see much praise come out of my mouth for Windoze but I
>>> truly like that boot CD.  I sold a few PC's I cleaned out and used that
>>>
>>>        
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>    

-- 

(PS - If you email me and don't get a quick response, you might want to
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Ron Frazier

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