[ale] Question
Ed Cashin
ecashin at noserose.net
Thu Dec 29 09:33:04 EST 2011
Great thoughts, Richard Bronosky. An employer who thinks like this is
worth working for, too.
I'm lucky I found an employer who appreciates enthusiasm and results. I
hope folks here who are enthusiastic focus on results (in hobbies,
volunteering, and work) more than worrying about the less important
mechanics of getting a job and are then successful in finding an employer
who appreciates enthusiasm and results. Other employers will probably be
miserable to work for anyway.
On Thu, Dec 29, 2011 at 12:17 AM, Richard Bronosky <Richard at bronosky.com>wrote:
> One of the key things I look for when hiring (And I screened 129
> applicant code challenges
> https://github.com/RichardBronosky/Tic-Tac-Toe this year) is that the
> applicant does "this stuff" for fun. One of the biggest selling points
> that I use to attract the best talent is this statement: "You will be
> working with a team of 30 developers who would all do this stuff for
> free if they weren't getting paid for it. But, unlike a startup you
> have the backing of a 100+ year old company."
>
> No matter how much experience you have, you will have a lot to learn
> to do the job. (Not just mine, but any job.) And I can't afford to pay
> you to learn it all. You have to love it. You have to do it for fun.
> You have to do it because it is who you are, not just what you do.
>
> Be _that_ person and you will get a job. If you only have your
> academic and work experience to offer, it is much harder to find the
> right opportunity.
>
> Also, I have no problem hiring developers whose primary experience is
> with Debian because it translates to CentOS fine... for a Developer.
> But, for an Operator, if you use Debian at home it had better be
> because you have been using RedHat for years and "in my free time I
> prefer apt." And you had better have an RMS beard to back it up.
>
> Finally, never say Ubuntu in an interview unless they say they use
> Ubuntu. Otherwise, you say Debian.
>
> Okay that was almost final. Last thing... Never use a subject like
> "Question". The subject of an email on a mailing list is how people
> decide whether or not to read the thread. My only purpose for even
> clicking on this thread was to blast you for the subject. But then I
> started to remember when I was just getting started back in 1995.
>
> On Wed, Dec 28, 2011 at 10:59 AM, Jim Kinney <jim.kinney at gmail.com> wrote:
> > True. It will not count for work experience, BUT it's practice in the
> field
> > that will get you through the technical questions that come up.
> >
> > It also looks good that you go home and do more than you did at work. You
> > are expanding your capabilities on your own time/dime.
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Dec 28, 2011 at 9:50 AM, Geoffrey Myers
> > <lists at serioustechnology.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> I can't say that I disagree with Jim's suggestions, but very few
> >> companies will see such home exercises as work experience.
> >>
> >> Just the same, you have to start somewhere. In most cases, you'll have
> >> to find a small company to get going with, which is difficult in the
> >> world of Linux.
> >>
> >> Charles Shapiro wrote:
> >> > +1 to everything Jim said.
> >> >
> >> > Also write a fun//happy//entertaining open source projects in a
> >> > popular language + serious library, e.g. python/WXPython or C++/QT4.
> >> > Learn the ins and outs of build, unit test, and packaging ( ant,
> >> > maven, autoconf, et cetera ). Learn to use and love a source code
> >> > control system ( CVS, SubVersion, or git). Learn something about
> >> > databases, administration and SQL ( PostGreSQL, MySQL, et cetera).
> >> >
> >> > Ideally, get involved in someone else's project so you have to
> >> > actually, like, cooperate with other people on a technical problem.
> >> > If you happen to have a relatively rare TLA ("Three Letter
> >> > Abbreviation") which an organization needs and interview even halfway
> >> > well (e.g. don't take your clothes off in front of the HR weasel) then
> >> > they'll Want You.
> >> >
> >> > -- CHS
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Tue, Dec 27, 2011 at 4:47 PM, Jim Kinney <jim.kinney at gmail.com>
> >> > wrote:
> >> >> +10 on homework!
> >> >>
> >> >> get a pile of old crap and make it "do things". Set up a web server,
> an
> >> >> NFS
> >> >> server, and a samba machine for windows file and print. Make
> >> >> everything
> >> >> talk to everything. Do things on a winders box and then do them
> better
> >> >> on
> >> >> the Linux box. Put MySQL and PostgreSQL on the same machine with the
> >> >> same
> >> >> data and test which one runs faster. Retest from a winders machine.
> >> >> retest
> >> >> through a webserver. That take some scripting/coding, some
> >> >> administration
> >> >> and some engineering.
> >> >>
> >> >> <time to piss off the ubuntu/debian/slackware/gentoo fans>
> >> >>
> >> >> Get CentOS and read the RedHat documentation
> >> >> https://access.redhat.com/knowledge/docs/ . Use nothing but CentOS
> 5 or
> >> >> CentOS6 (CentOS is the poor mans RHEL). The vast majority of paying
> >> >> jobs
> >> >> that come across the ale-jobs list (and that recruiters hit me as
> well)
> >> >> are
> >> >> for REDHAT. By vast majority, I mean 80+%. That doesn't mean some
> other
> >> >> distro won't work. But RHEL background will get your foot in the
> door.
> >> >> Configs between RHEL and Ubuntu are totally not compatible until you
> >> >> totally
> >> >> understand all bootup aspects of both distros AND are a bash guru.
> >> >>
> >> >> <end RHEL love fest>
> >> >>
> >> >> Learn virtualization and clustering. Be able to pull the power cord
> out
> >> >> of a
> >> >> crap box and have it's backup system pick up automatically. Learn
> >> >> scripting!
> >> >> Bash is your friend! Automate everything! Make your systems sort
> email
> >> >> by
> >> >> sender's 3rd letter of their last name (useless but a hard scripting
> >> >> exercise!). Don't use a gui for anything except viewing pictures!
> Learn
> >> >> backup methods from mondo to bacula.
> >> >>
> >> >> Use your local teachers as resources for extra experience. Ask if
> there
> >> >> is
> >> >> anything you can do to get more exposure. Ask for extra projects or
> for
> >> >> lab
> >> >> time working with them. Most profs will show a willingness to take
> on a
> >> >> total newbie if the newbie shows they are _MOTIVATED_TO_LEARN_.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> On Tue, Dec 27, 2011 at 1:23 PM, Wolf Halton <wolf.halton at gmail.com>
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> On Mon, Dec 26, 2011 at 8:31 PM, Mike Fletcher <fletch at phydeaux.org
> >
> >> >>> wrote:
> >> >>>> On Dec 26, 2011, at 17:49, jesse james <yoshi_mush_room at yahoo.com>
> >> >>>> wrote:
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> I currently in school trying to get a Bachelor's in IT. I want to
> be
> >> >>>> a
> >> >>>> Linux admin. But the every job I see is require at least 5 years
> >> >>>> experience
> >> >>>> in Red Hat administration. How would I go looking for something
> that
> >> >>>> doesn't
> >> >>>> require as much experience like an internship or something that
> would
> >> >>>> build
> >> >>>> my experience.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> You might check with your campus IT group and see if they have any
> >> >>>> part
> >> >>>> time openings. Even if they don't have admin openings for students
> >> >>>> you might
> >> >>>> find an ops position that gets you a foot in the door and contacts
> >> >>>> with the
> >> >>>> admins.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >> >>>> Ale mailing list
> >> >>>> Ale at ale.org
> >> >>>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> >> >>>> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at
> >> >>>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Start building that administration experience by setting up a
> network
> >> >>> at
> >> >>> home, and certainly look for non-profits that might be able to get
> you
> >> >>> in as
> >> >>> a volunteer. Volunteer experience is still experience.
> >> >>> --
> >> >>> This Apt Has Super Cow Powers - http://sourcefreedom.com
> >> >>> Advancing Libraries Together - http://LYRASIS.org
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> _______________________________________________
> >> >>> Ale mailing list
> >> >>> Ale at ale.org
> >> >>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> >> >>> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at
> >> >>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo
> >> >>>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> --
> >> >> --
> >> >> James P. Kinney III
> >> >>
> >> >> As long as the general population is passive, apathetic, diverted to
> >> >> consumerism or hatred of the vulnerable, then the powerful can do as
> >> >> they
> >> >> please, and those who survive will be left to contemplate the
> outcome.
> >> >> - 2011 Noam Chomsky
> >> >>
> >> >> http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> Ale mailing list
> >> >> Ale at ale.org
> >> >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> >> >> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at
> >> >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Ale mailing list
> >> > Ale at ale.org
> >> > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> >> > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at
> >> > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Until later, Geoffrey
> >>
> >> "I predict future happiness for America if they can prevent
> >> the government from wasting the labors of the people under
> >> the pretense of taking care of them."
> >> - Thomas Jefferson
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Ale mailing list
> >> Ale at ale.org
> >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> >> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at
> >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > --
> > James P. Kinney III
> >
> > As long as the general population is passive, apathetic, diverted to
> > consumerism or hatred of the vulnerable, then the powerful can do as they
> > please, and those who survive will be left to contemplate the outcome.
> > - 2011 Noam Chomsky
> >
> > http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ale mailing list
> > Ale at ale.org
> > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at
> > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo
> >
>
>
>
> --
> .!# RichardBronosky #!.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at
> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo
>
--
Ed Cashin <ecashin at noserose.net>
http://noserose.net/e/
http://www.coraid.com/
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