[ale] Awful story...

Mon Nov 16 10:56:27 EST 2009

Maybe I'm just getting stubborn but I tend to strongly recommend that
people use metric tools for metric sized hardware and SAE tools for
SAE sized hardware.

As such, I'm pretty adamant about using a Linux system to support/code
for Linux systems. I don't support windows or that BSD clone from
Cupertino so I have no reason to have those systems.

I have been bit with the lock-in problems with nosharepoint which
won't let me download a freakin' excel file since I don't have ie and
all of it's problems. So I punt that to a manager-type and they can
email the file. Ditto with visio files (which can get converted to
powerpointless).

On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 10:09 AM, Jerald Sheets <questy at gmail.com> wrote:
> Maybe I'm just a purist that way, but on my work machines it's a Linux
> desktop or it's nothing.  (I've used Macs in the past, but they were
> essentially iTerm sessions into my 2 Linux boxen.)
> I make a point of asking that in the interview.  If it's a deal-breaker,
> then there's something inherently wrong with the way business is done (in my
> opinion, of course) and I should make the decision right then and there if I
> want to work there.
> At my current position, the answer was:  "You have to have what we give you,
> but you get an extra machine, so as long as you can do your job, I don't
> care."
> This is the sensible, well thought-out answer.  It's predicated on me
> getting my job done.
> The company provided system is chained to the desk and never goes anywhere.
>  My primary and secondary machines are Linux Boxen, I manage mostly Linux
> Boxen with a few XServes and about 9 Solaris boxen. I use Macs at home.
> From any workstation at any time I can do my work with any tool for those
> platforms.
> Yes, if I'm hungry I'll use CP/M if I have to, but I prefer to make that
> decision, not be forced into it.  I ask in the interview, and if it's not to
> my liking I decline there.  I think that's a more professional approach and
> saves your potential employer's sanity (and your reputation)
> I think the mistake the guy in the story made was not communicating well
> enough in the interview process. (IMHO Of course.)
> I think the mistake the two acronym'ed companies made were:  Looking for a
> Linux guru to do a Linux deployment (or conversion to Linux) for a number of
> hosts and not expecting said guru to be a Linux user.
> The brain-dead part of this on the employer's side was they should want the
> person doing their Linux deployments to be so intimately familiar with Linux
> as to use it as a desktop.
> The brain-dead part of this on the employee's side was in not just taking
> the offered device and keeping his trap shut.  He should've done what he
> could in Linux and what he could in Windows.  Nothing good ever came out of
> confusing hiring managers and big companies with details of implementation.
>  He could've done this very well and very simply with no one above being any
> the wiser.
> --j
>
>
>
> On Nov 16, 2009, at 9:34 AM, Robert Heaven wrote:
>
> I have to concur with the replies on this... I work for a large bank (not
> the 4-letter one) that employs/contracts large numbers of
> contractors/outsources. And, I can assure you, this bank does NOT allow
> anyone to access the bank's network without a bank supplied laptop equipped
> with Windows/IE/CiscoVPN, etc.
>
> Do we have Linux? Yes. We have thousands of Linux machines running as
> back-end servers. I personally take care of over 1400 FreeBSD machines
> around the world. What do I use for a desktop? I use the bank supplied
> laptop running Windows/IE/... I do install Firefox and use it because the
> custom built application that runs on my FreeBSD machines doesn't support
> IE. But, for the other intranet web sites, I use IE because the IIS based
> web pages require it.
>
> Also, PMs can get pretty sensitive... the PM in this story probably got her
> feeling hurt when she perceived this person doing an "end-run" on her when
> he contacted tech support.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jim Popovitch <jimpop at gmail.com>
> To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts - Yes! We run Linux! <ale at ale.org>
> Sent: Mon, Nov 16, 2009 9:05 am
> Subject: Re: [ale] Awful story...
>
> There probably are even more companies involved, but only 2 are
>
> pertainent to the story.   Company A had a contract and subbed it out
>
> to Company B.  Company B was hiring someone to fullfil the contract.
>
> It doesn't matter who the orig contract was with.
>
>
>
> -Jim P.
>
>
>
> On 2009-11-16, scott <scott at sboss.net> wrote:
>
>> Actually there were three companies.  IBM, Indian-company, and four-
>
>> letter credit card company.
>
>>
>
>> And many companies that hire contractors/subcontractors restrict what
>
>> hardware/software/operatingsystems they can use.
>
>>
>
>> A few years back i went to do a half day job for a contracting company
>
>> for Dell. Now the customer knew I wasn't Dell.  But Dell required me
>
>> to use a Dell laptop and leave my mac at home (well rental car).  Dell
>
>> salesweenie handed me a Dell in the lobby of the customer to use.  I
>
>> went in, used the Dell for the 3-4 hours then handed it back to the
>
>> same person in the same lobby as I was leaving.
>
>>
>
>> Now was I happywith the Dell?  No not really.  It ran windows and IE.
>
>> <shudder>. but it isn't worth the hassle of trying to force firefox
>
>> (or even worse Linux) on companies.
>
>>
>
>> Here is a few words of advice (take them or leave them):
>
>> * when your employer(direct or indirect) gives you tools, use them.
>
>> Including the big evil windows.
>
>> * don't make the salesweenies nor pms upset with you at all.
>
>> Salesweenies are the ones signing the deals ($$$$) and the pms manage
>
>> the people and money allocations.  Make either upset and you are gone.
>
>> * when getting hired/contracted don't use the companies resouces
>
>> including tech support without direct approval of you point-of-contact
>
>> (the pm in the case above).  You could get yourself in big trouble if
>
>> you do.
>
>>
>
>> Just my two cents from being in those shoes before...
>
>>
>
>> Sent from my mobile...
>
>>
>
>> On Nov 16, 2009, at 8:27, Jim Popovitch <jimpop at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>
>>> Don't take this as a defensive statement for IBM....
>
>>>
>
>>> There are 2 different companies involved, according to the story.  The
>
>>> 3 letter company, and the Indian company.  It was the latter that was
>
>>> doing the hiring, according to what I read.  Now, imagine if big
>
>>> companies, that used contractors, had (got?) to dictate what tools
>
>>> those contractors or sub-partners had to utilize and support.  Now
>
>>> imagine that Microsft is the big company, should they have the right
>
>>> to force all their partners and contractors into using MS Office when
>
>>> OpenOffice would do the job?
>
>>>
>
>>> -Jim P.
>
>>>
>
>>> On 2009-11-16, Jerald Sheets <questy at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>>>
>>>> http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2009/11/linux-contractor-fired-for-using.html
>
>>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>> Sorry to hear this, but I know it's true from the IBM side.
>
>>>>
>
>>>> You should've seen the blank stares among sales-droids trying to
>
>>>> sell us
>
>>>> hardware when we would demand both fully GUI and fully command-line
>
>>>> manageable gear.  You'd swear you just told them you needed a flux-
>
>>>> capacitor
>
>>>> and an Infinite Improbability drive.
>
>>>>
>
>>>> If these big companies are going to tout their Linux compatibility
>
>>>> and their
>
>>>> Linux friendliness, they need to also make sure to understand that
>
>>>> people
>
>>>> that come a-calling from the Linux world will have a higher
>
>>>> likelihood than
>
>>>> ever before of not having Windows on the desktop.
>
>>>>
>
>>>> --j
>
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>
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>
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-- 
-- 
James P. Kinney III
Actively in pursuit of Life, Liberty and Happiness