[ale] Take the "too passe?" war on-list

[Jim Popovitch]

Hi Barry, 

Allow me to first welcome you to ALE just in case no one has yet.  I've
been on the list many years, so I've truly seen the best and worst of
ALE (contributed my best whenever I could :).  

I would have to say that in my opinion the downturn of involvement here
has nothing to do with list content.  I think the downturn mirrors the
general acceptance of Linux as a standard part of IT life.  How many
people go to the Atlanta Perl group, or any other long-term IT/Tech
group, with any consistency.  Sure new-comers are immediately interested
and some do attend a few.  However, I know at least half-a-dozen 5+ year
ALE folks who I have never seen at a meeting.  It is true that some
don't live in Atlanta anymore, but I think the bulk just don't need to
go to the meetings.  I like Starwars/trek, but I don't go to
monthly/quarterly/yearly meetings.  Back in the day you had to go
somewhere unusual to find people who know what Linux was.  These days
just shout "Linux!" and 3 out of 5 people know exactly what you are
talking about.

Btw, my earlier email was just an attempt at humor, not meant to invoke
a response.  However, since this one is "operational", I've changed the
subject a bit cuz I'm sure there will be some discussion.

Has Linux become sort of too passe for the hard core geeks?  The reason
I ask this is identify 3 or 4 true Linux hobbyists on this list who
don't troll for customers, make known that they seek customers,
participate here as a owner/rep of a Linux centric business.  These are
not bad or sinful things, it's just my opinion that Linux has become the
workman's standard rather than the hobbyist's exception.

-Jim P. 

On Mon, 2005-05-23 at 15:34 -0400, Barry Hawkins wrote:
> On Mon, May 23, 2005 at 02:50:46PM -0400, Jim Popovitch spake thus:
> > On Mon, 2005-05-23 at 14:38 -0400, Barry Hawkins wrote:
> > > Agreed.  Folks, if you had a problem with it, you should have said 
> > > something at the time.  It's time to let go.
> > 
> > Would their silence indicate a problem or a non-problem, and which is
> > truly better?  :-)
> Jim,
> 
> That sounds like another philosophical question with no short answer. 
> I haven't the spare time for that sort of sparring. :-)  I think the 
> responses, albeit late, are an indicator that quite a few people were 
> really annoyed by that saga, but in the interest of moving on, I 
> thought I'd encourage folks to not comment on it any further.
> 
> (Editorial Note: I hesitated to post the rest of this, since it may 
> result in my being flamed to hell and back.  But, it is my open and 
> honest perception, so maybe being willing to take one for the team 
> could result in some productive dialog about community within ALE.)
> 
> When I first joined this list a scant several months ago, I commented 
> to a friend who is also on the list that it seemed like a really good 
> one with low signal-to-noise.  He told me I should just stick around 
> long enough.  Since the election took place a couple of months later, 
> I soon saw what he meant.  These crabby flamewars do nothing to 
> promote community within ALE, and if anything they are a huge turnoff 
> to newcomers.
> 
> I have been to about 5 of the last 8 meetings for Central.  I can 
> vouch for the fact that it could certainly use some new blood, and 
> I would imagine from the hiatus of the NW group that it could use 
> some, too.  When folks come on the list and see a handful of folks 
> willing to beat issues to death and flame one another, the best you 
> can hope for is a 'wait and see' attitude from them regarding 
> participation and potential future leadership.  So, the same handful of 
> folks like Geoffrey, Aaron, Harold, and Michael (whom we miss greatly) 
> shoulder the burden.  (I am sure I am leaving out some, but please 
> know that it is because of my ignorance.)
> 
> There just aren't a ton of folks who enjoy being part of a group 
> where a handful of the sages or gurus like to hammer one another 
> with flamefests.  It really squelches openness and usually makes 
> the newcomer think "Good God, I had better not ask _my_ naive 
> question, I'll probably get clobbered!"  It could be that 
> the majority may say, "fine, who needs 'em if they're gonna be 
> that way!"  Well, OK, but realize that the cost of that is a 
> stagnant group without significant numbers to justify a steady 
> stream of good meetings and events with quality speakers.  
> 
> I think if those who have jeered at this thread's responses 
> would bear in mind what the goal of ALE is, they would see that 
> it's not something to mock, but rather a symptom that may help 
> us find ways to improve the community within ALE.
> 
> Sincerely,