[ale] Volunteer work for non-profits

[aaron]

I am another one who sides strongly with Geoffrey's positions on the 
FreeBytes oxymoron.

I had previously heard a little about the FreeBytes organization in 
conversations and was curious about their work, though I never followed 
through on finding out more about them.  Seeing their contact info in 
this thread had renewed my interest in working with them, since my 
understanding (and assumption from their name) was that they would be 
distributing recycled systems with Free and/or Open Source software 
installed. Sadly, egregiously and disappointingly, that turns out not to 
be the case; it seems FreeBytes is merely another sorry shill for the 
Micro$haft mobsters and the organization is doing an immense disservice 
to the very people they would claim to be helping. 

I, too, find it purely irrational for FreeBytes to distribute winblows 
based systems and software in the face of all the fully functional, 
comparable and often superior Open Source alternatives, all with 
licensing that is much more supportive of their stated goals. As a 
charity working for the public good, they are not bound by the 
constraints of technical ignorance, fraudulent marketing, extortion, 
viral compatibility and dictatorial corporate oligarchy which coerce most 
M$ victims into accepting the monopoly offerings, and I find their choice 
is essentially indefensible.

Others of conscience on this thread have already articulated or reiterated 
the well known evidence and arguments for urging a No M$ policy within 
FreeBytes before they receive any assistance from us. The products and 
history of Micro$haft leave little doubt that volunteering for a 
technology charity that distributes M$TD's to the less privileged is 
equivalent to serving salmonella soup at a homeless shelter.

;-)
 [ The facts of Micro$haft's history also confirm that there is nothing 
"religious" about our convictions. Religious wars require a gullible 
dependence on magical imaginary friends coupled with a blind belief in 
the hallucinatory, anachronistic rants of people who expired in some 
prior millennia. In complete contrast, the disfunctional, malevolent and 
criminal nature of M$ is self evident and devoid of any dependence upon 
superstition.]
;-)

peace
(after justice)
aaron


On Sunday 26 January 2003 16:43, Geoffrey wrote:
> Greg wrote:
> > 	Well, considering they are children, I cannot be harsh.  Since *I*
> > am not the one teaching *I* am not going to comment on what these
> > people have learned by doing & by experience and adopted as a policy.
> >  Teaching children is hard enough without several of them obsessing
> > on what is in actuality meaningless differences in a PC case, in
> > which case (pun) the time spent in a classroom is wasted.  Isn't your
> > wife a teacher ?  Don't you have children ?  One of my many jobs in
> > the Army was teaching and I always made an effort to keep
> > distractions to a minimum.
>
> Children are better at adapting then adults.  If you're providing
> hardware to children, they'd be tickled pink to get anything.  Further,
> I've taken old systems, fixed them up and donated them to various
> teachers over the years.  You can create a viable learing system
> without a Microsoft solution.  One of the greatest problems with
> breaking the cycle is the continued focus on Microsoft solutions in the
> classroom. Teaching computers should be teaching computers, not
> teaching Microsoft products.
>
> Look at the difference it what you can get with a fully loaded Linux
> system verses a used version of Windows.  What do you get with windows?
>    I'm not sure what all they get on these boxes, but a fully loaded
> Linux box has a whole lot more software they can experience.
>
> > I have some creative ideas of fixing it so everybody gets a different
> > PC, which would help them,  but I won't know if it works until it is
> > talked over with these folks and perhaps tested.  If none of them
> > work, fine.  At least I tried to give them a solution and not just
> > more problems.
>
> I'm not sure I get the drift of that???  I'm not looking to give them
> problems, I am interested in helping.  Maybe no one's ever suggested a
> Linux solution.  Maybe they don't recognize the vast amount of software
> you get with a full install of Mandrake, Red Hat or SuSE.
>
> > I really don't
> > intend to make any problems for these folks, nor am I suffering from
> > the egotism & "it's my way or the highway" that is an IT occupational
> > hazard.
>
> I don't intend to make problems for them either.  It may be that all
> they need is for someone to demonstrate to them what is possible
> outside the world of Microsoft.  I've converted my mother-in-law, my
> daughter and two non-technical friends.  It can be done, depending on
> the needs of each person.  Grant it, if you've got someone who's
> invested $100s in Microsoft based games, he/she's not a good candidate.
>
> As for the egotism comment, I don't think you understand where I'm
> coming from. My view is that Microsoft is a viral, unhealthy
> environment.  It's much like dysfunctional families.  Until you break
> the cycle, you'll not be able to change things.  All I'm saying is,
> make the effort to educate them in the ways they may not be aware of.
>
>   From the perspective of giving hardware away, the on going cost of
> maintaining the system as well as enhancing it will be far smaller if
> they're not locked into Microsoft.  And I truly mean locked.
>
> >>>2.  More games on PC's. (I dunno, I just made this up).
> >>
> >>Wrong answer.
> >
> > 	Dude, it was a joke.  Lighten up.
>
> As was my response. :)
>
> >>>3.  It's a M$ world.  I know that this is a poor forum for
> >>
> >>pointing out this
> >>
> >>>fact, but a fact it is.
> >>
> >>So that's a reason to proliferate the illegal monopoly?
> >
> > 	Geoffrey, you really need to get over this fixation with Microsoft
> > you have.  The last time I looked, any person in the US could use any
> > software they chose.  Just because the majority chose Microsoft is
> > really no reason to get upset.  Who really cares ?  I don't.
>
> You should.  They are an illegal monopoly.  Do you not believe that
> computer systems as a whole would not be better off if there was a
> fairer share of the market?
>
> You are not concerned with the way they run their business?  You speak
> of helping people, yet you don't have a problem with a company that
> operates as unethically as they do?
>
> It's not a fixation.  There is plenty of documentation out there
> outlining how Microsoft operates.  How they strong arm companies,
> individuals.  They have destroyed companies and peoples lives with
> their illegal extension of there monopoly.
>
> > 	If you cram Linux down everyone's throat, aren't you guilty of the
> > same thing ?  And to say that Linux is the end all and be all is just
> > so wrong on so many levels.  These folks aren't in cohoots with
> > Redmond or anyone else and to suggest otherwise (ESPECIALLY SINCE
> > YOU'VE NEVER MET THEM) is paranoiac to say the least.
>
> I don't know that I ever said they were in 'cahoots.' They go with what
> they know.  If they are provided the education to see that there truly
> is an alternative, it could well be better for them, particularily from
> a cost issue.
>
> > The focus here is on a group of folks trying to
> > do something good in Atlanta.  (Beyond Good and Evil)
>
> I'm not saying that you shouldn't help them because they only use
> windows.  I'm saying that if they won't sit down and hear you out, from
> the perspective of sharing the possibility of a better solution, then
> they are making a mistake.
>
> >>If you're giving a computer to someone who can't afford it, give them
> >>something they can continue to use.  I would think they wouldn't want
> >> to get into the grey area of having to prove they have valid
> >> licenses for these machines.
> >
> > 	Somehow I don't see the SBC (or whatever) ringing doorbells in the
> > tenements.  They also address this on the website.  If you talk to
> > them, I believe this has been addressed. And even if it is illegal I
> > don't' give a damm.  If anyone wants to lock me up, fine.  I am in
> > the telephone directory.
>
> That's not the issue.
>
> >   Further, teach them how to update the machine and get
> >
> >>the free goodies that come with a free OS.
> >
> > 	Ok.  Are you volunteering to do this or is this just mere words ?  I
> > will be there next week at 12:00 noon.  I expect you will also with
> > your plan to do just this ? And if your plan is rejected are you
> > prepared to teach M$ or take your toys and go home ?  Dude, these
> > folks need help & solutions, not a religious war. And yes, I am
> > serious.  I would like to see you there.
>
> Yes, I would like to assist.  I will see who I can talk to from the
> perspective of alternative solutions.  I'll even bring a preloaded box
> with me to demonstrate the available solutions for them if they are
> interested.
>
> If, after all that, the real solution is windows, then yes, I would
> still assist.
>
> > However, as per their web page:
> >
> > ALL volunteers are expected to help where the need is currently
> > greatest.
> >
> > Let's just get them crawling before running.
> >
> >
> >   Further, if they are truly
> >
> >>underprivledge, they'll be tickled to get the computer with the games
> >>that come with Linux.
> >
> > 	The games thing was a joke.  Yes, reason states that beggars can't
> > be choosers, but when was the last time you were in a classroom full
> > of reasonable children ???  Didn't Bill Cosby talk considerably on
> > this ?
> >
> > 	And what is with the "let them eat cake attitude".  Some beggars
> > don't know they are beggars and want some thing better - and I don't
> > blame them.  And if that's what it takes to get a kid to read and
> > learn, so be it.  As I was told, they had a kid who was thought to be
> > illiterate. Turns out he read fine when he was on the PC.  PC's
> > really provoke a reaction in kids.  That's what I want to be a part
> > of - and I don't care about the OS that that kid was using. That is
> > not the point.
> >
> >>>4.  Their website says kinda that they are open to Linux
> >>
> >>provided that they
> >>
> >>>have the things many small businesses need. i.e.:
> >>
> >>They do.  I personally won't donate time to an organization that is
> >>going to assist microsoft in the brainwashing of children.
> >
> > 	Fine. Free country.  I guarantee we won't cry over your absence. If
> > your personal jihad against Bill and all things Gatesian is of
> > greater importance than helping others and playing with a warehouse
> > of every type of PC in the computer pantheon, fine.  Don't want you
> > to compromise your morals.
> >
> > 	Of course, you won't have the opportunity to "brainwash children for
> > Linux" or put Linux in a non profit in GA, or help us in putting in
> > their network, or teaching a networking course using a *nix, but that
> > is ok. Watson and I think one other volunteer have set up some Linux
> > boxes (and an Irix box too!) and that is a start for Linux in this
> > organization. And I really dig the environment.  Nothing cooler then
> > in a club-turned-PC-warehouse/shop where everyone has to be a
> > self-starter and take ownership of things.
> >
> > I am showing up next week.
> >
> > And I don't care if it is me and the one lone employee of Free Bytes
> > or if it is a hundred showing up.
> >
> > And I don't care what is asked of me with regards to
> > software/hardware. Just as long as the basic mission is accomplished
> > I will be happy on the long drive back to Kennesaw.  I am not going
> > to drive to Midtown to bring more problems but solutions.  I will as
> > OpenBSD sez "Shut up and hack".
> >
> > There is way too much wrong with things in this world and I want to
> > be part of the solution and not of the problem, one of which is
> > apathy (read: sitting on one's ass).
> >
> > And that is it as far as I am concerned on this thread.  I am not
> > responding to anything else.  If all of the penguinistas want to take
> > a shot at me, go ahead.  I am not going to waste any time on a
> > religious/holy/OS discussion. Anyone wants to flame me, knock
> > yourself out. Don't care.  I know how to use a mail filter.  But like
> > I said, I am going to help this organization and will be at
> >
> > 2581 Piedmont Road
> > Suite D-1000
> > Atlanta, GA
> >
> > next week at 12 noon.
> >
> > And anyone who is coming with solutions and not problems is welcome.
> > Alot. Really.
> >
> > Greg Canter
> >
> >>>Why doesn't Free Bytes offer updated versions of Windows on their
> >>> PCs?
> >>>
> >>>Free Bytes 'can' distribute copies of updated versions of windows
> >>>(preferably Windows 95b), provided that the original license for the
> >>>operating system is donated with the PC. The original license is the
> >>>"Certificate of Authenticity." If your are in an office environment,
> >>> the network administrator may have a drawer full of them.
> >>>
> >>>Otherwise, as a non-profit, Free Bytes is only authorized to
> >>> distribute copies of Windows 3.11 and earlier. While it is not the
> >>> latest
> >>
> >>software out
> >>
> >>>there, it is perfectly suitable for the database management, word
> >>>processing, and spreadsheets that are the greatest needs among
> >>
> >>non-profits
> >>
> >>>requesting computers.
> >>
> >>And I would say Linux is far better suited for such purposes. So who
> >> do we talk to?
> >>
> >>>So, I think that they are open in many respects, but you have
> >>
> >>to be mindful
> >>
> >>>of reality.  I dunno, you would really have to ask them.
> >>
> >>However, Windows,
> >>
> >>>in some cases, runs on old stuff better, since it is not as
> >>
> >>strict as a *nix
> >>
> >>>on stuff (read M$ has lower reliability standards.
> >>
> >>Sorry that just isn't true.  How old of hardware are we talking? 
> >> I've got a couple 386's with Slackware on them.  I assure you, the
> >> latest Slackware will surely outperform windows 3.*.
> >>
> >>I'll check out their website for contact info.
> >>
> >>--
> >>Until later: Geoffrey		esoteric at 3times25.net
> >>
> >>The latest, most widespread virus?  Microsoft end user agreement.
> >>Think about it...
> >>
> >>_______________________________________________
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> >
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