[ale] Volunteer work for non-profits

[Geoffrey]

Greg wrote:

> 	Well, considering they are children, I cannot be harsh.  Since *I* am not
> the one teaching *I* am not going to comment on what these people have
> learned by doing & by experience and adopted as a policy.  Teaching children
> is hard enough without several of them obsessing on what is in actuality
> meaningless differences in a PC case, in which case (pun) the time spent in
> a classroom is wasted.  Isn't your wife a teacher ?  Don't you have children
> ?  One of my many jobs in the Army was teaching and I always made an effort
> to keep distractions to a minimum.

Children are better at adapting then adults.  If you're providing
hardware to children, they'd be tickled pink to get anything.  Further,
I've taken old systems, fixed them up and donated them to various
teachers over the years.  You can create a viable learing system without
a Microsoft solution.  One of the greatest problems with breaking the
cycle is the continued focus on Microsoft solutions in the classroom.
Teaching computers should be teaching computers, not teaching Microsoft
products.

Look at the difference it what you can get with a fully loaded Linux
system verses a used version of Windows.  What do you get with windows?
   I'm not sure what all they get on these boxes, but a fully loaded
Linux box has a whole lot more software they can experience.

> 
> I have some creative ideas of fixing it so everybody gets a different PC,
> which would help them,  but I won't know if it works until it is talked over
> with these folks and perhaps tested.  If none of them work, fine.  At least
> I tried to give them a solution and not just more problems.

I'm not sure I get the drift of that???  I'm not looking to give them
problems, I am interested in helping.  Maybe no one's ever suggested a
Linux solution.  Maybe they don't recognize the vast amount of software
you get with a full install of Mandrake, Red Hat or SuSE.

> I really don't
> intend to make any problems for these folks, nor am I suffering from the
> egotism & "it's my way or the highway" that is an IT occupational hazard.

I don't intend to make problems for them either.  It may be that all
they need is for someone to demonstrate to them what is possible outside
the world of Microsoft.  I've converted my mother-in-law, my daughter
and two non-technical friends.  It can be done, depending on the needs
of each person.  Grant it, if you've got someone who's invested $100s in
Microsoft based games, he/she's not a good candidate.

As for the egotism comment, I don't think you understand where I'm
coming from. My view is that Microsoft is a viral, unhealthy
environment.  It's much like dysfunctional families.  Until you break
the cycle, you'll not be able to change things.  All I'm saying is, make
the effort to educate them in the ways they may not be aware of.

  From the perspective of giving hardware away, the on going cost of
maintaining the system as well as enhancing it will be far smaller if
they're not locked into Microsoft.  And I truly mean locked.

> 
> 
>>>2.  More games on PC's. (I dunno, I just made this up).
>>
>>Wrong answer.
> 
> 
> 	Dude, it was a joke.  Lighten up.

As was my response. :)
> 
> 
>>>3.  It's a M$ world.  I know that this is a poor forum for
>>
>>pointing out this
>>
>>>fact, but a fact it is.
>>
>>So that's a reason to proliferate the illegal monopoly?
> 
> 
> 	Geoffrey, you really need to get over this fixation with Microsoft you
> have.  The last time I looked, any person in the US could use any software
> they chose.  Just because the majority chose Microsoft is really no reason
> to get upset.  Who really cares ?  I don't.

You should.  They are an illegal monopoly.  Do you not believe that
computer systems as a whole would not be better off if there was a
fairer share of the market?

You are not concerned with the way they run their business?  You speak
of helping people, yet you don't have a problem with a company that
operates as unethically as they do?

It's not a fixation.  There is plenty of documentation out there
outlining how Microsoft operates.  How they strong arm companies,
individuals.  They have destroyed companies and peoples lives with their
illegal extension of there monopoly.

> 
> 	If you cram Linux down everyone's throat, aren't you guilty of the same
> thing ?  And to say that Linux is the end all and be all is just so wrong on
> so many levels.  These folks aren't in cohoots with Redmond or anyone else
> and to suggest otherwise (ESPECIALLY SINCE YOU'VE NEVER MET THEM) is
> paranoiac to say the least.

I don't know that I ever said they were in 'cahoots.' They go with what
they know.  If they are provided the education to see that there truly
is an alternative, it could well be better for them, particularily from
a cost issue.

> The focus here is on a group of folks trying to
> do something good in Atlanta.  (Beyond Good and Evil)

I'm not saying that you shouldn't help them because they only use
windows.  I'm saying that if they won't sit down and hear you out, from
the perspective of sharing the possibility of a better solution, then
they are making a mistake.
> 
> 
>>If you're giving a computer to someone who can't afford it, give them
>>something they can continue to use.  I would think they wouldn't want to
>>get into the grey area of having to prove they have valid licenses for
>>these machines.
> 
> 
> 	Somehow I don't see the SBC (or whatever) ringing doorbells in the
> tenements.  They also address this on the website.  If you talk to them, I
> believe this has been addressed. And even if it is illegal I don't' give a
> damm.  If anyone wants to lock me up, fine.  I am in the telephone
> directory.

That's not the issue.

> 
> 
>   Further, teach them how to update the machine and get
> 
>>the free goodies that come with a free OS.
> 
> 
> 	Ok.  Are you volunteering to do this or is this just mere words ?  I will
> be there next week at 12:00 noon.  I expect you will also with your plan to
> do just this ? And if your plan is rejected are you prepared to teach M$ or
> take your toys and go home ?  Dude, these folks need help & solutions, not a
> religious war. And yes, I am serious.  I would like to see you there.

Yes, I would like to assist.  I will see who I can talk to from the
perspective of alternative solutions.  I'll even bring a preloaded box
with me to demonstrate the available solutions for them if they are
interested.

If, after all that, the real solution is windows, then yes, I would
still assist.

> However, as per their web page:
> 
> ALL volunteers are expected to help where the need is currently greatest.
> 
> Let's just get them crawling before running.
> 
> 
>   Further, if they are truly
> 
>>underprivledge, they'll be tickled to get the computer with the games
>>that come with Linux.
>>
>>
> 	The games thing was a joke.  Yes, reason states that beggars can't be
> choosers, but when was the last time you were in a classroom full of
> reasonable children ???  Didn't Bill Cosby talk considerably on this ?
> 
> 	And what is with the "let them eat cake attitude".  Some beggars don't know
> they are beggars and want some thing better - and I don't blame them.  And
> if that's what it takes to get a kid to read and learn, so be it.  As I was
> told, they had a kid who was thought to be illiterate. Turns out he read
> fine when he was on the PC.  PC's really provoke a reaction in kids.  That's
> what I want to be a part of - and I don't care about the OS that that kid
> was using. That is not the point.
> 
> 
>>>4.  Their website says kinda that they are open to Linux
>>
>>provided that they
>>
>>>have the things many small businesses need. i.e.:
>>
>>They do.  I personally won't donate time to an organization that is
>>going to assist microsoft in the brainwashing of children.
>>
>>
> 
> 	Fine. Free country.  I guarantee we won't cry over your absence. If your
> personal jihad against Bill and all things Gatesian is of greater importance
> than helping others and playing with a warehouse of every type of PC in the
> computer pantheon, fine.  Don't want you to compromise your morals.
> 
> 	Of course, you won't have the opportunity to "brainwash children for Linux"
> or put Linux in a non profit in GA, or help us in putting in their network,
> or teaching a networking course using a *nix, but that is ok. Watson and I
> think one other volunteer have set up some Linux boxes (and an Irix box
> too!) and that is a start for Linux in this organization. And I really dig
> the environment.  Nothing cooler then in a club-turned-PC-warehouse/shop
> where everyone has to be a self-starter and take ownership of things.
> 
> I am showing up next week.
> 
> And I don't care if it is me and the one lone employee of Free Bytes or if
> it is a hundred showing up.
> 
> And I don't care what is asked of me with regards to software/hardware.
> Just as long as the basic mission is accomplished I will be happy on the
> long drive back to Kennesaw.  I am not going to drive to Midtown to bring
> more problems but solutions.  I will as OpenBSD sez "Shut up and hack".
> 
> There is way too much wrong with things in this world and I want to be part
> of the solution and not of the problem, one of which is apathy (read:
> sitting on one's ass).
> 
> And that is it as far as I am concerned on this thread.  I am not responding
> to anything else.  If all of the penguinistas want to take a shot at me, go
> ahead.  I am not going to waste any time on a religious/holy/OS discussion.
> Anyone wants to flame me, knock yourself out. Don't care.  I know how to use
> a mail filter.  But like I said, I am going to help this organization and
> will be at
> 
> 2581 Piedmont Road
> Suite D-1000
> Atlanta, GA
> 
> next week at 12 noon.
> 
> And anyone who is coming with solutions and not problems is welcome. Alot.
> Really.
> 
> Greg Canter
> 
> 
> 
>>>
>>>Why doesn't Free Bytes offer updated versions of Windows on their PCs?
>>>
>>>Free Bytes 'can' distribute copies of updated versions of windows
>>>(preferably Windows 95b), provided that the original license for the
>>>operating system is donated with the PC. The original license is the
>>>"Certificate of Authenticity." If your are in an office environment, the
>>>network administrator may have a drawer full of them.
>>>
>>>Otherwise, as a non-profit, Free Bytes is only authorized to distribute
>>>copies of Windows 3.11 and earlier. While it is not the latest
>>
>>software out
>>
>>>there, it is perfectly suitable for the database management, word
>>>processing, and spreadsheets that are the greatest needs among
>>
>>non-profits
>>
>>>requesting computers.
>>
>>And I would say Linux is far better suited for such purposes. So who do
>>we talk to?
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>So, I think that they are open in many respects, but you have
>>
>>to be mindful
>>
>>>of reality.  I dunno, you would really have to ask them.
>>
>>However, Windows,
>>
>>>in some cases, runs on old stuff better, since it is not as
>>
>>strict as a *nix
>>
>>>on stuff (read M$ has lower reliability standards.
>>
>>Sorry that just isn't true.  How old of hardware are we talking?  I've
>>got a couple 386's with Slackware on them.  I assure you, the latest
>>Slackware will surely outperform windows 3.*.
>>
>>I'll check out their website for contact info.
>>
>>--
>>Until later: Geoffrey		esoteric at 3times25.net
>>
>>The latest, most widespread virus?  Microsoft end user agreement.
>>Think about it...
>>
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>>Ale at ale.org
>>http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>>
> 
> 
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> 
> 

-- 
Until later: Geoffrey		esoteric at 3times25.net

The latest, most widespread virus?  Microsoft end user agreement.
Think about it...


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