[ale] A nation of the immigrants, by the immigrants, for the immigrants

[Byron A Jeff]

> 
> There would be PLENTY to fill the jobs.  I know several that are out of work
> now.  I have never known so many personally that were in the IT industry
> that were out of work.  I am also looking for another job as my company is
> starting slide down hill.  Layoffs have hit us hard.  The next one may be
> the last one.  I am studying up on Linux, LVM, and networking (in the
> direction of a cisco certification)  I would really hate for it to be a
> waste of time.
> 
> I would LOVE to see that study (false one) that shows a shortage of IT
> workers.  That would make a good bedtime story.

I've been following this thread closely. Here's my weigh-in.

Aboloshing H1B's would solve very little. Instead of hiring from the American
work force, the companies would simply ship the jobs overseas.

BAJ

> 
> George
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Arafat Mohamed [mailto:amohamed at mail.totalemed.com]
> Sent: Monday, July 08, 2002 11:13 PM
> To: Greg
> Cc: ale at ale.org; discuss at charlug.org
> Subject: Re: [ale] A nation of the immigrants, by the immigrants, for the
> immigrants
> 
> So if the H1-b were to be abolished tomorrow and all foreign workers
> were asked to leave by the end of the day, are there enough American
> workers to fill these roles? What impact would this have on individual
> corporations and the economy as a whole?
> 
> Seems to me that the biggest problem is studies showing shortage of IT
> workers. Wouldn't it make more sense to conduct studies to the contrary
> and asking for a reduction on H1-b visas? This way companies are forced
> to hire american workers and the foreign workers that are here have less
> of a reason to work for slave wages. Because if there are so many
> skilled workers to go around, demand increases wages for them too.
> 
> The US might be in a recession, but I don't think this economy nor the
> job market will be helped by completely abolishing the visa program.
> 
> Then again, I could be completely wrong.
> 
> 
> Greg wrote:
> >
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: Arafat Mohamed [mailto:amohamed at mail.totalemed.com]
> >>Sent: Monday, July 08, 2002 7:32 PM
> >>To: ale at ale.org
> >>Cc: discuss at charlug.org
> >>Subject: [ale] A nation of the immigrants, by the immigrants, for the
> >>immigrants
> >>
> >>
> >>I've been following this discussion with interest considering that I'm
> >>an immigrant (thankfully not on an H1b though).
> >>
> >>Just a few questions I had and was wondering what sort of answers I'd
> >>get. Not trying to be a troll here, just curious.
> >>
> >>How exactly do companies follow the law (as was posted earlier) in
> >>determining whether or not there are no qualified americans to fill the
> >>position? Is the law actually followed or is it just one of those things
> >>no one pays attention to?
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > Currently they do not.
> > That is problem #1. See
> > http://www.programmersguild.org/Guild/h1b/howtounderpay.htm
> > Problem #2 is that academic H1B's are not counted in the totals.
> > Problem #3 is that software companies et al are cozying up to Senator
> > Hollings & Abraham and others telling them that there is a shortage of IT
> > professionals in the US to the tune of tens of thousands if not hundreds
> of
> > **open and unfilled IT jobs**.  One of the docs (yeah, in doc format too)
> is
> > here:
> > http://www.programmersguild.org/Guild/h1b/library/it1_cappelli_wharton.doc
> .
> > Dunno where all of these jobs are, but not many of them seem to be in the
> > South East US.
> > Problem #4 is the foreign countries push in lobbying congress to get us
> > (read US) to train more of them via H1B.  One of the biggest body shops,
> > Tata, is also hip deep in the Indian nuclear program.
> > Problem #5  They depress the market wages to near slave rates.
> > Problem #6  The most sad and unjust reason - They are treated like
> > indentured slaves, contrary in spirit to the US Constitution (well, before
> > Ashcroft exempted foreigners from it any way).
> >
> >
> >
> >>If the law as it stands is not being followed, will more legislation
> >>short of abolishing the H1-b program solve anything (I'm thinking gun
> >>control here)?
> >>
> >
> >
> > Yes, plain abolishment of the program is the best way.  If we need
> workers,
> > then we can legislate them back in, provided we cannot provide them.
> There
> > is **NO** reason for any foreigners to be here during a recession. Other
> > countries take care of their own, and so should we.  Those wanting to be
> > citizens of the US are warmly welcomed as long as it is in a reasonable
> > manner - meaning if we can accommodate them and they will not be a "slave
> > class" to large companies.  Besides, it is just companies ways of trying
> to
> > get the benefits of taking the work overseas w/o the drawbacks.
> >
> >
> >>The last question I ask is for the benefit of some who wouldn't want the
> >>program completely abolished.
> >>
> >>Is the abolition supposed to be permanent or temporary? If permanent,
> >>what happens when the next labor shortage occurs?
> >>
> >>What happens to those that have to take their families back to their
> >>countries (which I'm  guessing are third world countries and therefore
> >>not the most desirable place to live)? Does America and her corporations
> >>owe anything to them?
> >>
> >
> >
> > I seriously doubt *ANY* company will have $0.01 USD of sympathy for them.
> > It would be *nice* if the government made their companies fly them and any
> > family back in first class, but they came to this country knowing the
> rules.
> > I seem to recall some countries only letting those in on visas if they had
> > an open ticket out of the country, but I could be mistaken. Dunno if it
> > applies here.
> >
> >
> >>Thanks,
> >>Arafat Mohamed
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>---
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> >>sent to listmaster at ale dot org.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> 
> 
> 
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