[ale] Request for information - how linux saves $$$

[James Taylor]

I believe a different approach to the argument would be more fruitful.

I don't believe that you're going to sell a conversion based on cost
savings alone.  No change from a current state will show an immediate
cost savings.

Also, you need to make sure that your company's line of business
doesn't require an app whose function is not available on platforms
other than windows.  That could be showstopper.  At least it is if it's
needed by every user.  If there are apps that appear to meet this
condition, you'll have identify an alternative or you'll have an alomost
insurmountable task to overcome.

A couple of other points along these lines...

Business generally have 2-3 year turnover in PC office equipment due as
much to fully depreciating assets as much as need to upgrade for
application requirements.

Very few businesses have bought into the concept of a thin-client or
terminal server arrangement.  They like the flexibility of a fat
desktop.  Converting to Linux *and* thin-client all at once is probably
too big a jump.

I'm not a real fan of Win4Lin because it requires kernel modification
and is limited to 9.x  as a client OS.  That would be a big hit in terms
of reliability for users currently running W2K.

What I see as positive arguments are the following.

No need to have to be concerned with the pattern of MS demanding more
of your money and more control of your business via licensing agreement
requirements.

More flexibility in terms of application availability in the non-Office
space.

More flexibility in hardware requirements (in spite of what I said
earlier)

The ability to leverage current office licenses to run MSOffice using
Crossover for the indefinite future.

The availability of real alternatives to MSOffice to migrate to.

For apps that absolutely require a real windows OS, Use vmware and
leverage your current W2K licenses.  vmware is expensive, but in most
cases, requirement for *real* windows is limited to a small subset of
users.

Did I mention the ability to determine your software and OS
requirements based on *your* business needs rather than M$'s?

By the way, if you can get a subset of typical users running
successfully on linux on a day to day basis to demonstrate the value,
you'll find that you'll have a hard time prying them away from their
linux boxes if you try to make them go back to windows.  That is the
experience I've had with the users I've "converted".  And they range
from techogeeks to total non-computer types.

-jt 

James Taylor
The East Cobb Group,Inc
678-560-9702
james.taylor at eastcobbgroup.com

>>> "John Wells" <jb at sourceillustrated.com> 08/16/02 11:14AM >>>
Charles,

With the win4lin server, do you have to buy seperate windows licenses
for
each user who will use it on a terminal?

Thanks,

John

Charles Marcus said:
>> From: John Wells [mailto:jb at sourceillustrated.com] 
>> Sent: Friday, August 16, 2002 9:57 AM
>>
>> Here's the deal.  After forwarding this
>> (http://news.com.com/2100-1001-949913.html?tag=fd_top)
>> article to our location manager, he stopped by and said
>> he'd like to take a look at how much we actually could
>> save by switching our desktops to Linux.  Now, I'm
>> tasked to draw up this comparison and need some help.
>>
>> I understand there are dramatic savings to be reaped
>> from a purchasing standpoint, but what about from a
>> conversion standpoint?  I'm not familiar with the way
>> the Microsoft licensing scheme works, and one of his
>> questions for me was "Well, if we already own 60
>> licenses for Win 2000, how will it save us money to
>> switch to Linux?".
>
> No *immediate* savings, in this particular case.  The up-front
licensing
> savings won't be realized until you would have upgraded to WinXP (or
> .NET, or whatevers coming next), OfficeXP, etc.
>
> As of Aug 1, if you haven't signed up for their new 'software
assurance'
> licensing scheme, in order to move up to the desired version, you
will
> have to buy full retail versions of whatever you are 'upgrading' to
(ie,
> no more 'upgrade' versions/rebates on their s/w).
>
>> Can anyone provide more information?  Anyone out
>> there done a cost/benefit analysis for their
>> company?
>
> Haven't done one, but some thoughts on points to concentrate on in
> developing your report...
>
> Training/retraining.  I don't think this cost is nearly as much as
M$
> shills would have us believe, but it is a real issue that you have
to
> consider.  If you already have Linux proficient people in-house, it
> shouldn't be much (beyond their salaries, which are already being
paid
> anyway).  Here, you can make the argument that, yes, you may have to
> spend more time up front doing some training/hand-holding, but once
> everyone is familiar with the new systems, support costs will
actually
> go *down* due to the increased reliability of Linux over Windows.
>
> Also, viruses won't be nearly as big an issue (do *not* tell them
that
> it is a non-issue, as it is only a matter of time before Linux/Unix
> viruses start appearing) - if/when Linux viruses start to appear,
they
> won't be able to cause nearly as much damage as they can and do on
> Windows systems.
>
> Implementing LTSP w/s could further decrease support/maintenance
costs.
>
> No more costs involved with keeping up with all those licenses (this
can
> be a big deal in large organizations).
>
>> I *really* want to make this report a stellar,
>> persuasive one.  If we switch to Linux at our
>> location and really show benefits from the
>> conversion, it could easily expand into much of
>> the company.  We're talking approx. 6000 employees
>> internationally, and approx. 65 locally.
>> This is a real chance for a win!
>
> Your location is an ideal situation for an LTSP setup.
>
> Setup a small LTSP network using boot floppies (so you don't have to
do
> a thing to the workstations), then setup a small demo
> Linux/Win4Lin/Tarantella box for the Windows apps, get them
> installed/working, then just show the boss.
>
> The LTSP w/s boots up in about 40-50 seconds, and after that, the
> Windows session boots up in about 20-30 seconds whenever it is
started.
> You could even have an LTSP workstation boot straight into a
full-screen
> Win4Lin session for any workstations that *only* use the Windows
apps.
>
> Be sure to explain to the boss that you'll never need to upgrade the
> hardware again (at least, not in the next 5 years or so) - except
maybe
> for the Server.
>
> You can get really creative and setup some redundant/failover servers
to
> limit downtime, etc.
>
> These things sell themselves.
>
> Charles
>
>
> ---
> This message has been sent through the ALE general discussion list.
See
> http://www.ale.org/mailing-lists.shtml for more info. Problems should
be
>  sent to listmaster at ale dot org.




---
This message has been sent through the ALE general discussion list.
See http://www.ale.org/mailing-lists.shtml for more info. Problems
should be 
sent to listmaster at ale dot org.


---
This message has been sent through the ALE general discussion list.
See http://www.ale.org/mailing-lists.shtml for more info. Problems should be 
sent to listmaster at ale dot org.