[ale] Little OT: Blind Future: Advise Wanted

[Frank Zamenski]

> > If every thing goes well I will graduate December 2001. I am interested
> > in knowing, from you who have been there and/or know what employers are
> > looking for, should I go to collage and pursue a degree in computer
> > science? If yes, would a four or two year be enough?
> >
> > Or, I can skip collage and go get the certifications? Which
> > certifications should I look more into? Any additional advise would be
> > welcome!!! Hind site is 20/20
> >
> > What would be better?
>
> Partially, it depends on what you think you want to do.
>

Go to college! Please! Just do it, you'll thanks us later!
Oh yeah, try to get a degree also! :)
(Seems my wife and I had a similiar conversation not long ago with our
son. He's heading off to Michigan State Univ this fall.)

The college degree will hold more 'value' much longer than the tech
certificates. Consider Microsoft certificates. That 'technology' ;) changes
too quickly. It's chronic (and expensive) to keep up with that moving
target!
Much better to invest in the traditional college degree, at least most of
the
core ciriculumn courses you will take have stood, and will stand, the test
of
time. Your elected major, particularly if technical, will likely only be
good for
seven or so years (so says the rule of thumb) before new advancements
render the courses somewhat obsolete, but the foundations of the major
should stand sound a long while.

Take the certification courses later. By then, you may be employed,
and your employer may pick up most or all of the tab for those anyway.
Especially if the cert courses are important to your job functions, and
they want to keep you around.

> IMHO:
> Go to college and get a four year degree. This is for several reasons. One
is,
> this is the best time in your life to do it. After you start working, your

And... it may also be the best time of your life, too! Well, one of the best
times
anyway. If you are like most college students, you will be chronically
'poor'
(that's relative of course), but mostly happy, and maybe slightly carefree.
Quite
the tradition, really, and a maturing ritual also. I'd love to have the four
years again
to concentrate on only studying. Not to mention enjoying the social aspects
of
college life again, too. <g> Only thing I'd do different is study a little
harder!
Well, that's easy to say now! ;)

> income will preclude almost all financial assistance, and going part-time
> while you work may mean you never finish your degree. A four-year college
is
> not a trade school, so the major isn't as critical as you might think. A

Agreed on all counts. It is difficult for many to finish the college degree
when one is working, married, raising kids, buried under financial
obligations
etc. I finished before starting 'real' work, but have met countless people
since
who did not, who eventually decided to get a college degree. Of course they
can only take a few courses a semester while they work full time. It takes
most
people years and years to get a degree that way, and I can only imagine it
as
being twice as difficult, working a full day, then taking care of the usual
home-life
obligations, than heading off for school, than studying under the other
daily
pressures in attempt to get good passing grades. Wow! I give people like
that
a *lot* of credit, and applaud them for trying to better themselves, but...
just,
wow! Tough way to go. Ask anyone who has been there, or is going through
it now.

> bachelor's shows you have a well-rounded education; you're not more
> technically capable than if you had a two-year computer degree. What you
ought
> to have is the ability to communicate clearly to a wide range of different
> people, not just techies. And the ability to be flexible. Not only will
you be
> more flexible in the job and therefore more valuable, but it will help you
> down the line. Back when I was working in academic advising after I
graduated,
> the 'average' college graduate at that time would change jobs around 10
times
> in their working life, and change *careers* three times. Hence, when
students
> would say "I need degree X to so I can work as Y", we'd show them
alternate
> ways to get to Y, because a) they might never be Y and b) sooner or later
> they'd be something else anyway. For instance, of the UNIX sysadmins that
I
> know from work and elsewhere, two are History majors, and one is a
Chemistry
> major.
>

I know a UNIX SA that is a psychology major. There's a story there
somewhere. He's... well, different. (What's that old saw? Something about
the
academic development of UNIX at the Univ of California at Berkley during the
60s, and the concurrent rise of L.S.D. experimentation ... as being just
mere
coincidence? heheh... <g>)

> While in college, get a balance of things. Don't do what one friend of
mine
> did, for his humanities credits he took "Science, Myth and Values", and
> for his social science, "History of Science". Its those oddball courses
that
> don't directly apply that will show up later as far more useful. After
all, I
> was a History major with a lot of computer credits; now I'm a UNIX
sysadmin.

I was a geology major. And I did real professional work as a petroleum
exploration geologist in the late 70s thru early 90s (carbon-dating myself
here).
I eventually changed careers and became a UNIX sysadmin in the late 90s.
But only after getting an applied associates degree (after my B.S.! :) in
CIS,
and doing a stint as a desktop and network support specialist first. As an
aside,
I worked at the community college concurrently, helping them set up a new
campus LAN (this was in the mid-90s), which is to underscore the fact that
it
never hurts working part-time at the college of your choice in your academic
area of interest also. The practical applied experience is just great, and
looks
real good on the resume. (When I got the B.S., I also did geology
work-study.
I currated the school of geology's very ancient and quite dishelved ancient
rock
and mineral collection! And my first real-world employer in the oil biz gave
that
several pluses in the interview.) I also have nine credits toward a M.S.
(environmental geology). I took that before the A.A.S. Not that I recommend
everyone go to college continually and chronically, being a professional
student eventually hits the point of diminishing returns. Four or five years
can be
enough for most real world jobs, and by then you'll likely be broke and sick
of
college anyway! (Maybe I just couldn't decide what I wanted to finally be
when
I grew up?)

I would suggest that if you decide to become a brain-surgean instead, do
make
an attempt to grab at least a couple more years of college though. Most
patients
seem to prefer it! <g>

>
> Also, while in college, get experience. Take summer internships, or see if
you
> can get in a work co-op program, where you work and take full-time classes
in
> alternate terms. This will help you see where college and real life do and
> don't mix in your field, and help a bit with money, and keep you sane. A
> degree is nice, but a degree + experience is $$$$.
>

As above. Absolutely! And in times of economic slowdown, the degree(s)
have given me the employment edge over a non-degreed person. I won't
say it's because I was an inherently *smarter* or *better* person in any
other way than my competition for a job, but I will say many potential
bosses (particulalry if they are degreed thenselves, and most I've worked
for are) will view you as someone who can complete a major project. And
make no mistake, getting a college B.S. or B.A. or B. whatever) degree, even
in the alloted four or five years, *is* a major project for most people! But
a
potential boss may view you as well-rounded, often regardless of your
major and minor, and if they see you as a potential fit to the (probably
entry level) job, they will view you as trainable! (Now, I won't get into
the
fact that most domestic animals are 'trainable' also, you can ponder that
yourself later after a particularly droll and boring assingment! :-))


> There is nothing wrong with two-year technical degrees and/or
certifications.
> But a number of postings I've seen require a Bachelor's degree, so sooner
or
> later you'd hit a ceiling. And some certifications aren't worth the
effort;
> ask around and be sure it means something. Check out places like
monster.com
> and techjobs.com, and see what types of jobs are out there, and what
skills,
> experience, and certifications they require.
>

I concur on all counts. Also, should corporate management be an eventual
goal (and for the young, here's the obligatory 'yech'!! :), again, most mid
to
upper level managers, and almost all exec's with a lot of initials behind
their
names, will almost always hold undergrad or graduate degrees. (Yeah yeah,
we all know about Bill Gates not completing his degree, but he DID go to
Harvard.... besides, this diatribe is not about social injustice! Make that
your Ph.D. thesis!)


> Regardless of which way you choose, check out the program with people
there
> currently and graduates. Make sure what they offer makes sense to you. If
you
> want to do web programming, a school that offers a lot of courses that use
RPG
> III on AS/400s won't be worth a toot. On the other hand, if you want to
> program for the insurance industry, that's a first-class ticket.
>

Agreed. Research, research, and research some more anything of interest, and
talk to a lot people! That's one of the points of going to college anyway.
You will learn the fine art of research. You will learn to communicate with
all
kinds of folks. You will learn how to learn, and THAT is THE bottom line to
life-long SUCCESS! Security in this life is not what any company offers you,
that
can be all very fleeting and transient, that is a fact. What IS security in
this life is the
investment YOU make in YOURSELF: how to learn!

> That's enough for now. Let us know if you have any more questions.

This is a very opnionated topic. It will be interesting to see what others
think.

>
> --
> Bob Slaughter, rslau at mindspring.com     http://www.mindspring.net/~rslau/
> North Georgia Modurail: http://www.mindspring.net/~rslau/ngm/
>

Regards,
Frank Zamenski
UNIX SA
Detroit MI

(Great, just, great! A fine time for my OE spell checker to fail, after
posting about
college degrees!! I ought to have my head examined for using Msft... oh,
wait, I
almost completed a major in psychology also. I'll just do it myself! :-)




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