[ale] upgrading desktop

Jim Kinney jim.kinney at gmail.com
Wed Jul 29 11:57:36 EDT 2020 

Reading won't wear the ssd. Modern versions have really good reliability so using them for most /tmp needs is ok. I don't suggest using ssd as storage for high write database without some serious engineering.

Keep backups and don't worry much.

On July 29, 2020 9:35:12 AM EDT, Bob via Ale <ale at ale.org> wrote:
>
>
>Hi Jim,
>
>Both you and J.D. are suggesting that I not bother putting more memory 
>in my current system, so I'll scrap that idea.  Both of you prefer an 
>AMD cpu for the desktop.
>
>You're suggesting purchasing a 2 year old, off-lease machine with an
>AMD 
>cpu and DDR4 memory.  Your philosophy with computers sounds similar to 
>mine about cars.  I prefer to buy a car that's a couple of years old, 
>and then drive it until
>
>J.D. is suggesting replacing cpu and motherboard provided I have a 
>decent case.  If I don't have a decent case, I think he's suggesting 
>building a new desktop.  Building a desktop sounds intriguing since
>I've 
>never done that; however, I think I should wait on a project like that 
>until I have more free time.
>
>Both of you like having an ssd.   I'll look into that.  At least one of
>
>you doesn't think it's that important to keep directories that are 
>frequently read from and written to off of the ssd, correct?
>
>--Bob
>
>
>On 2020-07-28 6:56 p.m., Jim Kinney via Ale wrote:
>> I have to keep kicking myself that when I spec a system, it's a node
>in an HPC stack that will run HARD 24x7 for the next 6-8 years by
>several hundred people I'm convinced are trying to crash systems. Most
>normal people don't need 3GHz dual 32-core cpus with 500GB RAM and 4TB
>of RAID1 NVME scratch space and 100G Infinniband to share data between
>dual P100 GPUs. (Buy 100+ of these systems and call me. I'll make house
>calls)
>> 
>> Keep this in mind: personal machine power efficiency has improved so
>much that buying an off lease cheap box (2 years old) will be an big
>upgrade compared to a mid price system of 6-8 years ago. AMD is always
>better performance per watt than Intel.
>> 
>> When I did the price point calculations, the "knee" in the price vs
>performance curve was about 2 releases back from the most recent for
>almost all technology components. Don't buy the fastest or biggest. Buy
>the third or fourth fastest.
>> 
>> Getting DDR4 RAM is a good plan. Way, WAY cheaper per GB than prior
>types.
>> 
>> I've had decent performance from RealTek 1G network chips. The Intel
>ones are way better but 4x the price. For desktop hitting interwebs for
>basic stuff, realtek won't be the slow point. For a home file server,
>it's a nightmare. Use Intel cpu for that as well. Never dug into why,
>but Xeon is great for file servers. AMD is for number crunching.
>> 
>> SSD tech is where I get fussy/crazy. I will buy cutting edge when all
>that matters is speed (and it's someone elses money). When I need a
>balance of performance and reliability, RAID1 SSD 2 gens back from
>leading edge (this is my standard for most things, home and work). When
>it's my money and longevity is paramount, a single SSD 3 gens from edge
>plus a spinning rust disk for local backup. It's not off site but if
>the house burns, I'll have bigger issues.
>> 
>> I futzed around with raid and mixed drives, ssd and rust. Under most
>home read conditions, raid1 worked fine. But during heavy writes with
>reads, it was a mess. Of course I was using Linux software raid. But
>getting behind larger than write behind buffer on hardware raid will
>generate a system wait to flush then it _all_ flushes. Not great doing
>a video convert.
>> 
>> My $0.02. worth about that much, too 👍
>> 
>> On July 28, 2020 4:06:11 PM EDT, DJ-Pfulio via Ale <ale at ale.org>
>wrote:
>>> What's your budget?  What's the goal?
>>>
>>> Is the Lenovo using standard PSU and case? If it doesn't have a
>>> standard case, most major "upgrades" are risky. Need all the screws
>and
>>> clearances to be right.  OTOH, a $30 case for someone who doesn't
>open
>>> it more than once a year to clean out the dust is just fine.
>>>
>>> The easy way to provide info about your current box, is to run: 
>inxi
>>> -Fz and post that.
>>>
>>> $214 for MB+CPU combo:
>>>
>https://www.microcenter.com/product/5003878/-amd-ryzen-5-3600-with-wraith-stealth-cooler,-asus-b450m-a-csm-prime,-cpu---motherboard-bundle
>>> The only negative I see with this is a crappy Realtek NIC, so I'd
>need
>>> to spend $25 on a quality NIC.  The forums are full of people with
>>> Realtek NIC issues. I have a G3258 with a flakey Realtek NIC. Ended
>up
>>> disabling it and throwing in an old cheap Marvell.
>>>
>>> I need to check a few other MB+CPU combos to see what's available.
>>> Microcenter almost always has some
>>>
>>> With a standard case, that MB+CPU combo just needs some DDR4 RAM and
>a
>>> GPU.  That's almost 18K passmarks in 65W.  5 yrs ago, that was Xeon
>>> server performance.  My Ryzen 2600 is just 13K passmarks.  Reuse
>>> everything else you already have.
>>>
>>> There's little purpose in doing a little upgrade to an 8 yr old CPU
>>> unless it is only a CPU swap and the newer one is 2x faster -
>minimal.
>>> However, an SSD would make a difference for pretty much any system.
>>> I'm a fan of the Samsung 8xx and 9xx lines. Just be sure to check
>the
>>> warranty TBW numbers so you know what you are getting. I have a
>>> model: Samsung_SSD_860 size: 500.1GB in a laptop. It is a SATA
>>> interface with a 2.5inch form factor standard for laptops.  I've
>never
>>> seen a 3.5inch form in any SATA.  I have seen m.2 for both SATA and
>>> NVMe, but you don't have any m.2 slots, so that won't work.  My rule
>>> for SSDs is pretty simple.  If they don't have a warranty based on
>TBW
>>> (endurance) or they refuse to publish that data, then I won't buy.
>>> Their are a number of SSD "brands" which do that.  I've had a few
>SSDs
>>> fail over the years. They were much cheaper than the Samsung.
>>> I also have a model: Micron_1100_MTFD size: 512.1GB.  Micron is who
>I
>>> think WD and Crucial buy their SSDs from.  I would have preferred to
>>> get a Samsung, but needed the storage for a build and was already
>over
>>> the budget. The Samsung was $30 more at the time.
>>>
>>> When I was researching SSD lifespans and linux information, so
>things
>>> jumped out.  I'm a simple person and only recall when I make a
>decision
>>> to avoid certain types, not the details. Those decisions are based
>on
>>> my needs which probably don't meet anyone else's needs.  Do your own
>>> research.  Plus, it has been 18+ months since my last SSD purchase.
>The
>>> SSD world could have changed in that time.
>>>
>>> How big should an SSD be?  How can we say? For some systems, 16G is
>too
>>> much. For others 2TB isn't enough.
>>>
>>> Because you didn't say what CPU is currently used, we can't tell
>>> whether any upgrade is worth it.
>>>
>>> 280W is probably fine for anyone not dropping in a $130 GPU that
>needs
>>> extra power, but it completely depends on the current CPU draw and
>how
>>> much storage there is.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 7/28/20 12:16 PM, Bob via Ale wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Charles has me thinking about upgrading my 8 year old lenovo
>desktop.
>>>> I'm thinking of increasing memory and installing an ssd.
>>>>
>>>> I don't know much about hardware, so I'm hoping some of you might
>>>> give me some advice and maybe keep me from doing something stupid.
>>>> I'm not a gamer, so that might make things simpler.
>>>>
>>>> 1)  Memory.  Currently, there are  two 4 GB ddr3 1600 memory
>modules
>>>> in the two memory slots.  There is no graphics card in my desktop
>and
>>>> the integrated graphics uses some of the memory.  I can upgrade to
>>>> two 8 gb ddr3l 1600.  According to crucial.com, the crucial 16gb
>kit
>>>> (2 x 8GB) ddr3l-1600 udimm are compatible.
>>>>
>>>> I believe my motherboard can use either ddr3 or ddr3l.  Is there an
>>>> advantage of one over the other?
>>>>
>>>> (The power supply unit has been fine, but it's only 280 watts.  I
>>>> don't know if that would affect the above choice or not.)
>>>>
>>>> Microcenter has a variety of brands:  Neo Forza, G. skills ripjaw,
>>>> crucial, ....  Are there brands to avoid?  Are there brands that
>>>> you'd recommend?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2)  ssd.  This seems more complicated.
>>>>
>>>> There are 4 empty pci express slots---one is x16 and the others x1.
>>>> I do not believe that the motherboard supports pcie ssd.  The
>>>> motherboard does not have mSATA or m.2 slots.  So pcie ssd seems to
>>>> be impossible. (I don't know what I'd ever use these slots for.)
>>>>
>>>> The chipset on the motherboard only supports SATA at 3.0 gb/s. 
>There
>>>> are 3 SATA ports and one e-SATA port.  (There has been no update to
>>>> the bios/uefi firmware.)
>>>>
>>>> One SATA port is connected to the optical drive, and the other two
>>>> SATA ports are connected to the two 1TB HDDs Both drives have
>plenty
>>>> of free space.
>>>>
>>>> I don't know why I get slightly different info for the following.
>>>> When I execute "sudo hdparm -I /dev/sda | grep SATA", the result
>is:
>>>>
>>>> Transport:          Serial, SATA Rev 3.0
>>>>
>>>> but on /dev/sdb, the result is:
>>>>
>>>> Transport:          Serial, SATA 1.0a, SATA II Extensions, SATA Rev
>>>> 2.5, SATA Rev 2.6, SATA Rev 3.0
>>>>
>>>> The e-SATA port is connected to a usm hot-swappable bay where I'm
>>>> supposed to be able to plug in a portable SATA drive.  The
>connector
>>>> is supposed to be a standard SATA connector.  I have never used
>this
>>>> bay so far.
>>>>
>>>> It seems like I could either purchase an external SATA ssd and plug
>>>> it into the bay.  I don't know if I would have troubles booting
>from
>>>> that drive.
>>>>
>>>> OTOH, I could remove one of the HDDs and put the SSD into either
>>>> /dev/sda or /dev/sdb.  Presumably, I could put the HDD that was
>>>> removed into an enclosure allowing it to be placed into the
>swappable
>>>> bay on the rare occasions that it was needed.
>>>>
>>>> 1)  Does it seem better to remove an HDD and put the ssd into that
>>>> space vs. putting the ssd into the swappable bay?  Does it make a
>>>> difference if the ssd is put into the drive where /dev/sda is or
>>>> /dev/sdb?
>>>>
>>>> 2)  Any suggestions on how large the ssd should be?
>>>>
>>>> 3)  Are there brands to avoid or brands that you would recommend?
>>>>
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>> 
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>
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