[ale] upgrading desktop

[Bob]

Hi Jim,

Both you and J.D. are suggesting that I not bother putting more memory 
in my current system, so I'll scrap that idea.  Both of you prefer an 
AMD cpu for the desktop.

You're suggesting purchasing a 2 year old, off-lease machine with an AMD 
cpu and DDR4 memory.  Your philosophy with computers sounds similar to 
mine about cars.  I prefer to buy a car that's a couple of years old, 
and then drive it until

J.D. is suggesting replacing cpu and motherboard provided I have a 
decent case.  If I don't have a decent case, I think he's suggesting 
building a new desktop.  Building a desktop sounds intriguing since I've 
never done that; however, I think I should wait on a project like that 
until I have more free time.

Both of you like having an ssd.   I'll look into that.  At least one of 
you doesn't think it's that important to keep directories that are 
frequently read from and written to off of the ssd, correct?

--Bob


On 2020-07-28 6:56 p.m., Jim Kinney via Ale wrote:
> I have to keep kicking myself that when I spec a system, it's a node in an HPC stack that will run HARD 24x7 for the next 6-8 years by several hundred people I'm convinced are trying to crash systems. Most normal people don't need 3GHz dual 32-core cpus with 500GB RAM and 4TB of RAID1 NVME scratch space and 100G Infinniband to share data between dual P100 GPUs. (Buy 100+ of these systems and call me. I'll make house calls)
> 
> Keep this in mind: personal machine power efficiency has improved so much that buying an off lease cheap box (2 years old) will be an big upgrade compared to a mid price system of 6-8 years ago. AMD is always better performance per watt than Intel.
> 
> When I did the price point calculations, the "knee" in the price vs performance curve was about 2 releases back from the most recent for almost all technology components. Don't buy the fastest or biggest. Buy the third or fourth fastest.
> 
> Getting DDR4 RAM is a good plan. Way, WAY cheaper per GB than prior types.
> 
> I've had decent performance from RealTek 1G network chips. The Intel ones are way better but 4x the price. For desktop hitting interwebs for basic stuff, realtek won't be the slow point. For a home file server, it's a nightmare. Use Intel cpu for that as well. Never dug into why, but Xeon is great for file servers. AMD is for number crunching.
> 
> SSD tech is where I get fussy/crazy. I will buy cutting edge when all that matters is speed (and it's someone elses money). When I need a balance of performance and reliability, RAID1 SSD 2 gens back from leading edge (this is my standard for most things, home and work). When it's my money and longevity is paramount, a single SSD 3 gens from edge plus a spinning rust disk for local backup. It's not off site but if the house burns, I'll have bigger issues.
> 
> I futzed around with raid and mixed drives, ssd and rust. Under most home read conditions, raid1 worked fine. But during heavy writes with reads, it was a mess. Of course I was using Linux software raid. But getting behind larger than write behind buffer on hardware raid will generate a system wait to flush then it _all_ flushes. Not great doing a video convert.
> 
> My $0.02. worth about that much, too 👍
> 
> On July 28, 2020 4:06:11 PM EDT, DJ-Pfulio via Ale <ale at ale.org> wrote:
>> What's your budget?  What's the goal?
>>
>> Is the Lenovo using standard PSU and case? If it doesn't have a
>> standard case, most major "upgrades" are risky. Need all the screws and
>> clearances to be right.  OTOH, a $30 case for someone who doesn't open
>> it more than once a year to clean out the dust is just fine.
>>
>> The easy way to provide info about your current box, is to run:  inxi
>> -Fz and post that.
>>
>> $214 for MB+CPU combo:
>> https://www.microcenter.com/product/5003878/-amd-ryzen-5-3600-with-wraith-stealth-cooler,-asus-b450m-a-csm-prime,-cpu---motherboard-bundle
>> The only negative I see with this is a crappy Realtek NIC, so I'd need
>> to spend $25 on a quality NIC.  The forums are full of people with
>> Realtek NIC issues. I have a G3258 with a flakey Realtek NIC. Ended up
>> disabling it and throwing in an old cheap Marvell.
>>
>> I need to check a few other MB+CPU combos to see what's available.
>> Microcenter almost always has some
>>
>> With a standard case, that MB+CPU combo just needs some DDR4 RAM and a
>> GPU.  That's almost 18K passmarks in 65W.  5 yrs ago, that was Xeon
>> server performance.  My Ryzen 2600 is just 13K passmarks.  Reuse
>> everything else you already have.
>>
>> There's little purpose in doing a little upgrade to an 8 yr old CPU
>> unless it is only a CPU swap and the newer one is 2x faster - minimal.
>> However, an SSD would make a difference for pretty much any system.
>> I'm a fan of the Samsung 8xx and 9xx lines. Just be sure to check the
>> warranty TBW numbers so you know what you are getting. I have a
>> model: Samsung_SSD_860 size: 500.1GB in a laptop. It is a SATA
>> interface with a 2.5inch form factor standard for laptops.  I've never
>> seen a 3.5inch form in any SATA.  I have seen m.2 for both SATA and
>> NVMe, but you don't have any m.2 slots, so that won't work.  My rule
>> for SSDs is pretty simple.  If they don't have a warranty based on TBW
>> (endurance) or they refuse to publish that data, then I won't buy.
>> Their are a number of SSD "brands" which do that.  I've had a few SSDs
>> fail over the years. They were much cheaper than the Samsung.
>> I also have a model: Micron_1100_MTFD size: 512.1GB.  Micron is who I
>> think WD and Crucial buy their SSDs from.  I would have preferred to
>> get a Samsung, but needed the storage for a build and was already over
>> the budget. The Samsung was $30 more at the time.
>>
>> When I was researching SSD lifespans and linux information, so things
>> jumped out.  I'm a simple person and only recall when I make a decision
>> to avoid certain types, not the details. Those decisions are based on
>> my needs which probably don't meet anyone else's needs.  Do your own
>> research.  Plus, it has been 18+ months since my last SSD purchase. The
>> SSD world could have changed in that time.
>>
>> How big should an SSD be?  How can we say? For some systems, 16G is too
>> much. For others 2TB isn't enough.
>>
>> Because you didn't say what CPU is currently used, we can't tell
>> whether any upgrade is worth it.
>>
>> 280W is probably fine for anyone not dropping in a $130 GPU that needs
>> extra power, but it completely depends on the current CPU draw and how
>> much storage there is.
>>
>>
>> On 7/28/20 12:16 PM, Bob via Ale wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Charles has me thinking about upgrading my 8 year old lenovo desktop.
>>> I'm thinking of increasing memory and installing an ssd.
>>>
>>> I don't know much about hardware, so I'm hoping some of you might
>>> give me some advice and maybe keep me from doing something stupid.
>>> I'm not a gamer, so that might make things simpler.
>>>
>>> 1)  Memory.  Currently, there are  two 4 GB ddr3 1600 memory modules
>>> in the two memory slots.  There is no graphics card in my desktop and
>>> the integrated graphics uses some of the memory.  I can upgrade to
>>> two 8 gb ddr3l 1600.  According to crucial.com, the crucial 16gb kit
>>> (2 x 8GB) ddr3l-1600 udimm are compatible.
>>>
>>> I believe my motherboard can use either ddr3 or ddr3l.  Is there an
>>> advantage of one over the other?
>>>
>>> (The power supply unit has been fine, but it's only 280 watts.  I
>>> don't know if that would affect the above choice or not.)
>>>
>>> Microcenter has a variety of brands:  Neo Forza, G. skills ripjaw,
>>> crucial, ....  Are there brands to avoid?  Are there brands that
>>> you'd recommend?
>>>
>>>
>>> 2)  ssd.  This seems more complicated.
>>>
>>> There are 4 empty pci express slots---one is x16 and the others x1.
>>> I do not believe that the motherboard supports pcie ssd.  The
>>> motherboard does not have mSATA or m.2 slots.  So pcie ssd seems to
>>> be impossible. (I don't know what I'd ever use these slots for.)
>>>
>>> The chipset on the motherboard only supports SATA at 3.0 gb/s.  There
>>> are 3 SATA ports and one e-SATA port.  (There has been no update to
>>> the bios/uefi firmware.)
>>>
>>> One SATA port is connected to the optical drive, and the other two
>>> SATA ports are connected to the two 1TB HDDs Both drives have plenty
>>> of free space.
>>>
>>> I don't know why I get slightly different info for the following.
>>> When I execute "sudo hdparm -I /dev/sda | grep SATA", the result is:
>>>
>>> Transport:          Serial, SATA Rev 3.0
>>>
>>> but on /dev/sdb, the result is:
>>>
>>> Transport:          Serial, SATA 1.0a, SATA II Extensions, SATA Rev
>>> 2.5, SATA Rev 2.6, SATA Rev 3.0
>>>
>>> The e-SATA port is connected to a usm hot-swappable bay where I'm
>>> supposed to be able to plug in a portable SATA drive.  The connector
>>> is supposed to be a standard SATA connector.  I have never used this
>>> bay so far.
>>>
>>> It seems like I could either purchase an external SATA ssd and plug
>>> it into the bay.  I don't know if I would have troubles booting from
>>> that drive.
>>>
>>> OTOH, I could remove one of the HDDs and put the SSD into either
>>> /dev/sda or /dev/sdb.  Presumably, I could put the HDD that was
>>> removed into an enclosure allowing it to be placed into the swappable
>>> bay on the rare occasions that it was needed.
>>>
>>> 1)  Does it seem better to remove an HDD and put the ssd into that
>>> space vs. putting the ssd into the swappable bay?  Does it make a
>>> difference if the ssd is put into the drive where /dev/sda is or
>>> /dev/sdb?
>>>
>>> 2)  Any suggestions on how large the ssd should be?
>>>
>>> 3)  Are there brands to avoid or brands that you would recommend?
>>>
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