[ale] Future-proofing a house for networking -- what to run?
Derek Atkins
derek at ihtfp.com
Tue Sep 12 15:45:11 EDT 2017
This seems like it could be a bootstrap problem.. If the VM (I presume it
requires Windows?) runs on my laptop, but my laptop needs to either access
the 802.11 AP.. Or I suppose it needs to access the switch, but the
switch would need to already be working in order for my DHCP server to
respond...
I suppose if the only configuration that needs to be configured externally
would be special features, like LAG, then that's probably okay.
Losing its mind when it reboots is NOT okay. I have a TP-Link switch
right now that I had configured for LAG to my Cisco.. Every once in a
while the TP-Link would lose its mind and stop routing traffic across to
the Cisci. I know it's the TP and not the Cisco because I had to
re-configure the TP and re-enable the LAG config. Don't know what was up
with that, but I just decided that having a single 1G link that didn't
fail was better than a 2G LAG that would stop sending packets at random
times.
-derek
On Tue, September 12, 2017 3:28 pm, Kyle Brieden wrote:
> This is mostly correct. The UniFi devices still run EdgeOS and can be
> managed via SSH as well. The problem is that any changes you make don't
> get propagated UP to the controller, so they will be lost if a
> controller provisions the devices. There's also instances of devices
> losing configuration on reboot, thus requiring a controller to provision
> them on reboot for continuity.
>
> There's methods around that, but I like the controller (which I run on a
> VM here), so I didn't get into those.
>
> ---
> Very respectfully,
> Kyle Brieden
>
> On 12-09-2017 11:47, Scott Plante wrote:
>> My understanding is that the UniFi uses a centralized management
>> software while the EdgeSwitch uses a local individual web/ssh
>> management interface. It used to be you had more flexibility with the
>> ssh command line interface but they have been releasing new iterations
>> of the UniFi control software so that may not be true so much anymore.
>>
>> We just ordered a 48 port EdgeSwitch, Amazon Warehouse
>> scratch-and-dent to save money. Supposedly only had a scratched finish
>> on the back but turned out to be DOA. Fans would run but no lights and
>> no switching. The full price version wasn't prime, and we already have
>> a Ubiquity wi-fi using the management software, so I ordered the UniFi
>> 48-port switch--supposed to be here Wednesday.
>>
>> For the UniFi, you can buy a small device (is it a RPi inside?) that
>> has it running, or install it somewhere locally. At least for the
>> hotspot, there's no way to administer the device directly, if I
>> remember correctly.
>>
>> https://hub.docker.com/r/jacobalberty/unifi/
>> https://www.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-Unifi-Cloud-Key-Control/dp/B017T2QB22/
>>
>> --
>> Scott Plante
>>
>> -------------------------
>>
>> FROM: "Derek Atkins" <derek at ihtfp.com>
>> TO: "Kyle Brieden" <kyle at txmoose.com>
>> CC: ale at ale.org, "Jim Kinney" <jim.kinney at gmail.com>
>> SENT: Tuesday, September 12, 2017 11:09:20 AM
>> SUBJECT: Re: [ale] Future-proofing a house for networking -- what to
>> run?
>>
>> Kyle,
>>
>> Thanks for the info. I must applogize to you -- I read your reply
>> before seeing the one to which you were replying.
>>
>> The cameras I plan to get require 12W each (well, the power supply
>> they
>> come with is a 12V 1A power supply -- so I'm ASSUMING that it will
>> want
>> to draw 12W from PoE). This means that the 250W swich can only
>> support
>> 20 cameras (which *MAY* be sufficient). So that would certainly save
>> ~$200 versus the -500W version. On the other hand part of that 250W
>> probably needs to power the router itself, so it's probably fewer
>> cameras than that. So I might still need to go to the 500W version
>> for
>> $523.
>>
>> The Cisco you list below only has 12 PoE ports, which isn't
>> sufficient.
>>
>> Question: What is the difference between the UniFi Switch and the
>> EdgeSwitch?
>>
>> -derek
>>
>> Kyle Brieden <kyle at txmoose.com> writes:
>>
>>> I suppose I could have been more clear. I was not so much
>>> recommending the specific gear I have as I was recommending Ubiquiti
>>> as a brand, and noting the gear that I have as anecdotal evidence to
>>> support my recommendation. If you've already got high enough
>> density
>>> switching infrastructure, don't change it for sake of having all
>> your
>>> gear be the same brand. Network gear is network gear, and it all
>>> plays nice together... more or less, anyway. But Ubiquiti gear is,
>> in
>>> my experience, far less expensive than comparably featured,
>> supported,
>>> and classed gear from damn near any other manufacturer.
>>>
>>>
>>> 24 port managed PoE - $365 -
>>>
>> https://www.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-UniFi-Switch-Managed-US-24-250W/dp/B00OJZUQ24/
>>> 24 port managed PoE - $385 -
>>>
>> https://www.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-EdgeSwitch-ES-24-250W-24-Ports-Managed/dp/B00LV8Z2V2/
>>> 24 port managed PoE - $305 -
>>>
>> https://www.amazon.com/Cisco-SG200-26P-Ethernet-Mini-GBIC-SLM2024PT/dp/B004GHMU5Q/
>>> 24 port managed - $215 -
>>>
>> https://www.amazon.com/NETGEAR-GS724Tv4-24-Port-Lifetime-Protection/dp/B00I5W5EGA/
>>> 24 port managed - $193 -
>>>
>> https://www.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-Networks-US-24-Unifi-Switch/dp/B01LZBLO0U/
>>> 24 port managed - $185 -
>>>
>> https://www.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-Networks-Edgeswitch-Gigabit-ES-24-LITE/dp/B013Z21ZJE/
>>>
>>> There's lots of range and options, I was simply saying that I
>>> recommend Ubiquiti. Their support is incredibly helpful and
>>> knowledgeable (in my experience with them), their gear is high
>> quality
>>> and easy to deploy, and I've been happy with the products I've
>>> purchased to date.
>>>
>>> ---
>>> Very respectfully,
>>> Kyle Brieden
>>>
>>> On 11-09-2017 15:30, Derek Atkins wrote:
>>>> Jim,
>>>>
>>>> Yes, I know the US-24-500W is a 24-port switch. Kyle recommended
>> an
>>>> 8-port, which doesn't help me.
>>>>
>>>> The PoE switch is, as I just said, for my PoE IP Camera network.
>> My
>>>> main
>>>> network is separate. I cannot leverage any open ports on this
>>>> switch for
>>>> my main network (and I doubt the IP cameras suppose VLANs).
>>>>
>>>> I've already got a Cisco SG200-50 for my main switch. For the few
>>>> additional PoE devices I have (currently: 2) I can just use
>> standard
>>>> PoE
>>>> power injectors. They cost $17 each, which is much less than the
>>>> additional cost of a PoE capable switch. So if I need to add a
>>>> second AP,
>>>> I'll happily pay another $17 vs having to spend an additional
>>>> $100-200 for
>>>> a (second) PoE-capable switch.
>>>>
>>>> I would also prefer to limit the number of switches if I can to
>>>> limit the
>>>> required cross-connects (which of course become bottlenecks).
>>>>
>>>> -derek
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, September 11, 2017 3:16 pm, Jim Kinney wrote:
>>>>> That's a 24-port 1G PoE switch. It provides power to 24 downstream
>>>>> devices like phones, small switches and with some hacking,
>> systems.
>>>>> That particular switch is pretty useful for being a gateway switch
>> for
>>>>> other Ubiquiti WAPs (most all run on PoE).
>>>>> I have this for home wireless:
>>>>>
>> https://www.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-Networks-802-11ac-Dual-Radio-UAP-AC-PRO
>>>>>
>> -US/dp/B015PRO512/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1505157073&sr=1-
>>>>> 1&keywords=ubiquiti%2BWAP&th=1
>>>>> Due to a large, sheetmetal duct in the center of the house between
>>>>> floors, there's a shadow in coverage that's not good. That $130 is
>> a
>>>>> low cost way to slap a second unit in the ceiling on the top floor
>> to
>>>>> fill in that shadow.
>>>>> Just search Amazon for Ubiquiti. Lots of toys at very good prices.
>>>>> On Mon, 2017-09-11 at 14:58 -0400, Derek Atkins wrote:
>>>>>> Kyle,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The Unifi US-24-500W is $523 on Amazon. How is that
>>>>>> "inexpensive"? I
>>>>>> said I needed 16-24 ports, so not sure how an 8-port helps me. I
>> do
>>>>>> admit
>>>>>> I didn't specify "rackmount" in my OP -- Mea Culpa. But I'd
>> rather
>>>>>> find
>>>>>> something more in the $200 range for that purpose (a physically
>>>>>> private
>>>>>> network of IP security cameras).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes, I do have an Edgerouter for my main router, which replaced
>> my
>>>>>> Routerboard because the RB750 couldn't keep up with my Gigapower
>>>>>> network.
>>>>>> I mostly like it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Honestly I kind of like my DAP-2660 AC1200 AP and see little
>> reason
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> switch. It's worked quite well for me.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -derek
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, September 11, 2017 2:36 pm, Kyle Brieden wrote:
>>>>>> > EdgeOS, and absolutely LOVE my ubiquity gear. I got the Unifi
>> 8
>>>>>> > port
>>>>>> > PoE switch, Unifi Security Gateway, and the WAP that support
>>>>>> > 802.11ac.
>>>>>> > It has literally changed my home networking. Can't recommend
>> it
>>>>>> > enough.
>>>>>> > I got all 3 of those seriously high grade boxes for about the
>>>>>> > same
>>>>>> > price you pay for a consumer router that supports 802.11ac.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > HIGHLY recommend.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > +1
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > ---
>>>>>> > Very respectfully,
>>>>>> > Kyle Brieden
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > On 11-09-2017 11:19, Jim Kinney wrote:
>>>>>> > > On September 11, 2017 10:04:42 AM EDT, Derek Atkins
>> <derek at ihtfp.
>>>>>> > > com>
>>>>>> > > wrote:
>>>>>> > > > Jim,
>>>>>> > > >
>>>>>> > > > On Mon, September 11, 2017 9:51 am, Jim Kinney wrote:
>>>>>> > > > > 10G multimode with lc connectors.
>>>>>> > > >
>>>>>> > > > is it "easy" to build these? Are there LC connector
>> keystone
>>>>>> > > > jacks
>>>>>> > > > available?
>>>>>> > > >
>>>>>> > > > > Unless you _really_ are forward looking and install 100G.
>>>>>> > > >
>>>>>> > > > OM3 fiber looks like it will get to 40/100G
>>>>>> > > >
>>>>>> > > > > Otherwise install conduit and spare pull strings. That
>> really
>>>>>> > > > > future-proofs an install.
>>>>>> > > > >
>>>>>> > > > > I would plan for a 1" conduit with a single cat6, one
>> rg6,
>>>>>> > > > > one low
>>>>>> > > >
>>>>>> > > > voltage
>>>>>> > > > > line (music) and a pull string.
>>>>>> > > >
>>>>>> > > > I'm not sure this is REALLY an option for me.I feel it is
>>>>>> > > > certainly a
>>>>>> > > > more
>>>>>> > > > expensive option vs just running a bunch of cables now.
>>>>>> > > >
>>>>>> > > > > Spend money on a distribution center that all these lines
>>>>>> > > > > start from.
>>>>>> > > >
>>>>>> > > > Good
>>>>>> > > > > 10G switch, powered cable splitter, good remote
>> adjustable
>>>>>> > > > > amp for
>>>>>> > > >
>>>>>> > > > music
>>>>>> > > > > control.
>>>>>> > > >
>>>>>> > > > Yes. My current house has a 96-port RJ45 patch panel (2/3
>>>>>> > > > full). I
>>>>>> > > > would
>>>>>> > > > definitely repeat that. Similar with audio -- I've got a
>> 6-
>>>>>> > > > zone amp
>>>>>> > > > (although I dont think my current one is remotely
>> adjustable --
>>>>>> > > > but I
>>>>>> > > > just
>>>>>> > > > adjust via iTunes).
>>>>>> > > >
>>>>>> > > > I'm still researching TV/HDMI distribution systems....
>>>>>> > > >
>>>>>> > > > Oh, and trying to find a good 16-24-port PoE (10/)100/1000
>>>>>> > > > switch.
>>>>>> > >
>>>>>> > > Look at Ubiquity. They have a selection of PoE switches in
>>>>>> > > various
>>>>>> > > port counts and rather affordable pricing. I've got a WAP and
>> a
>>>>>> > > 16
>>>>>> > > port 10G switch from them. Pretty happy with both. Control
>>>>>> > > software is
>>>>>> > > closed source. Hardware looks like it may run the open switch
>>>>>> > > software
>>>>>> > > whose name escapes me.
>>>>>> > >
>>>>>> > >
>>>>>> > > > -derek
>>>>>> > > >
>>>>>> > > > > On September 11, 2017 9:33:47 AM EDT, Derek Atkins
>> <derek at iht
>>>>>> > > > > fp.com>
>>>>>> > > > > wrote:
>>>>>> > > > > > Hi Alers,
>>>>>> > > > > >
>>>>>> > > > > > If you had the ability to future-proof your house
>> (imagine
>>>>>> > > > > > open
>>>>>> > > >
>>>>>> > > > studs,
>>>>>> > > > > > so you could run anything you wanted), what would you
>>>>>> > > > > > run. Assume a
>>>>>> > > > > > max
>>>>>> > > > > > of 6 cables per drop?
>>>>>> > > > > >
>>>>>> > > > > > Last time I ran 4x Cat6A and 2x RG6. However I'm never
>>>>>> > > > > > using both
>>>>>> > > >
>>>>>> > > > RG6
>>>>>> > > > > > F-connectors, so I figured I could replace that with
>>>>>> > > > > > something else.
>>>>>> > > > > > And before you ask, yes, I *AM* using all 4 RJ45
>> connectors
>>>>>> > > > > > in some
>>>>>> > > >
>>>>>> > > > of
>>>>>> > > > > > my drops (and in one place I wish I had MORE Rj45).
>> So,
>>>>>> > > > > > what else
>>>>>> > > > > > should I run?
>>>>>> > > > > >
>>>>>> > > > > > My current theory is 4x Cat6A, 1x RG6, and 1x Fiber.
>>>>>> > > > > >
>>>>>> > > > > > However I'm not sure what kind of "fiber" to run, nor
>> what
>>>>>> > > > > > kind of
>>>>>> > > > > > connector I should use.
>>>>>> > > > > >
>>>>>> > > > > > Any suggestions or recommendations?
>>>>>> > > > > >
>>>>>> > > > > > -derek
>>>>>> > > > > >
>>>>>> > > > > > --
>>>>>> > > > > > Derek Atkins 617-623-3745
>>>>>> > > > > > derek at ihtfp.com www.ihtfp.com
>>>>>> > > > > > Computer and Internet Security Consultant
>>>>>> > > > > > _______________________________________________
>>>>>> > > > > > Ale mailing list
>>>>>> > > > > > Ale at ale.org
>>>>>> > > > > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>>>>>> > > > > > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at
>>>>>> > > > > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo
>>>>>> > > > >
>>>>>> > > > > --
>>>>>> > > > > Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. All tyopes are
>>>>>> > > > > thumb
>>>>>> > > >
>>>>>> > > > related
>>>>>> > > > > and reflect authenticity.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Derek Atkins 617-623-3745
>> derek at ihtfp.com www.ihtfp.com
>> Computer and Internet Security Consultant
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--
Derek Atkins 617-623-3745
derek at ihtfp.com www.ihtfp.com
Computer and Internet Security Consultant
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