[ale] OT Ouch. Stay away from proprietary technology.

Mon Feb 8 10:39:31 EST 2016

Suntrust will refund disputed funds immediately on reporting a fraud charge
on a debit card. Their usage security is similar to credit card - logical
impossible charges based on physical distance are blocked but a quick call
to security opens a legitimate charge. My cost for bogus charges is $0.
On Feb 8, 2016 10:34 AM, "Alex Carver" <agcarver+ale at acarver.net> wrote:

> Clark Howard's website has an article from December 2015 saying don't
> use debit cards at gas station pumps and one from November 2015 with a
> list of nine places to never use one (which also contains a link to an
> article in November 2013 about places not to use one).
>
> Clark is not a friend of debit cards.
>
> As for the laws, debit versus credit still don't have exactly the same
> protections.  Liability on a credit card is $50 if it is physically
> stolen (zero if the number is stolen) and as long as you report the
> fraud at some point within 60 days (two billing cycles).  Temporary
> suspension of those charges is usually immediate and in place while an
> investigation is underway.  Debit card liability if the card or PIN is
> lost or stolen is $50 if reported within two days, then $500 if reported
> afterwards.  If the card or PIN is not lost then there is no liability
> if reported within 60 days.  There is no requirement to restore the
> money to your bank account while the investigation is in progress but
> there's a time limit of 10 days for the investigation to conclude and
> restore funds if necessary.
>
> Whether the issuers provide more generous options is up to them but the
> minimum law requirements are still different. (Details came from the
> Consumer Financial Protection Bureau and the Federal Trade Comission
>
> http://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0213-lost-or-stolen-credit-atm-and-debit-cards
> )
>
> On 2016-02-08 06:13, DJ-Pfulio wrote:
> > ATM skimmers were about a year worth of articled over at :
> KrebsOnSecurity -
> > just looked. The most current article there (Feb 3rd) is about a skimmer
> at
> > Safeway **on** the checkout PoS device!
> >
> https://krebsonsecurity.com/2016/02/safeway-self-checkout-skimmer-close-up/
> Can
> > we all say "inside job?"  A well-made skimmer is impossible for most
> people,
> > including me, to recognized. The criminals have make injection mold,
> fitted,
> > devices to place over the real ATM/PoS stuff for years.
> >
> > Georgia and the Atlanta metro area has had skimmers for at least 5 yrs.
> The
> > quicky-mart folks don't seem to notice when these are added in less than
> 20
> > seconds at the pump.
> >
> > Debit cards got credit-card-like legal protections about 10 yrs ago.
> Check Clark
> > Howard's website for more specifics. OTOH, I've refused to switch to a
> debit
> > card and fortunately my bank has retained their Maesto ATM network
> connections
> > which have worked in every country I've traveled. With debit card fraud,
> they
> > have your money already and we have to beg to get it back. With credit
> card
> > fraud, they have the bank's money, not mine, so the bank is much more
> likely to
> > work to get it back. That's my theory.
> >
> > ATMs in foreign countries often have huge fees. Fortunately, my bank
> pays any
> > ATM fees, so the $15 added fee in Thailand didn't matter to me.  Also,
> around
> > Cancun, there is a criminal group who owns almost every ATM machine in
> the town
> > that isn't inside a bank. Their goal is to capture the card data so they
> have
> > access to your accounts. A link:
> >
> http://krebsonsecurity.com/2015/09/whos-behind-bluetooth-skimming-in-mexico/
> > and
> >
> http://www.networkworld.com/article/2984857/security/when-in-mexico-don-t-use-the-atms.html
> > Since mostly foreigners use those and our legal protections against
> fraud DO NOT
> > APPLY, there is little risk to those gangs.
> >
> > Be careful out there.  Cash still works, BTW.
> >
> >
> >
> > On 02/08/2016 12:51 AM, Alex Carver wrote:
> >> The biggest solution: dump debit cards.  You have protections by law for
> >> credit cards which do not apply to debit cards and, in many cases, the
> >> credit card issuer has better policies on the books for fraudulent
> >> activity.
> >>
> >> You also avoid the "temporary charge" situation that is usually found on
> >> debit cards.  Many merchants post a charge to debit cards well above the
> >> amount you saw at the checkout terminal as a hold.  When this happens,
> >> it acts like that amount is withdrawn already leaving it unavailable for
> >> further purchases.
> >>
> >> After that, watch for skimmers.  Take time to look at the device you're
> >> about to use, tug on the card reader, whatever you need to spot a
> >> skimmer.  If you find it, report it and go somewhere else.  It's very
> >> easy for someone to install a skimmer on things like gas pumps and ATMs,
> >> especially ATMs that are private brand (inside stores) or in foreign
> >> countries.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On 2016-02-07 20:51, Scott Castaline wrote:
> >>> Back in 2009 I had a similar situation happen to me. At the time Iwe
> >>> didn't have any credit cards so this happened to my debit card. I had
> >>> been down in Tampa and I had no problems until I got back home. I had
> >>> filled the rental car with gas before turning it using that card with
> no
> >>> problem. My wife picks me up at the airport and I filled our van up
> with
> >>> gas again using the same card. We get over to Kroger's I went to pick
> up
> >>> a prescription from the pharmacy and got declined. At first didn't
> think
> >>> anything of and used my wife's card no problem. Later I go to use my
> >>> card again to check out at Krogers and was declined again even when
> they
> >>> entered the card info manually. I called the bank (then it was ING
> >>> Direct and is now Capital One 360) and they didn't know why but my card
> >>> had been frozen. As it turned out it was the company that handled their
> >>> clearing and approvals, that company informed us that between the time
> >>> that I got gas and then the first declined attempted there were 5
> credit
> >>> requests totaling $30,000 that were very far apart from each other in
> >>> Mexico at the same time. So all charges were declined and my card was
> >>> frozen. A week later I got a new card.
> >>>
> >>> Nine months later, I had made it a daily practice to go online with my
> >>> banks and one morning I see several charges totaling $5,000 on my new
> >>> card. This time I had to do all the leg work to resolve the issues. The
> >>> worst part was that night I several bills scheduled which didn't happen
> >>> and by the time I got it straightened out I was late an several of them
> >>> getting clobbered with late fees. All but one merchant wound up
> >>> canceling the orders, Champion Sports was very quick to ship out the
> >>> order with in 2 hours, but did credit my account. Then I did mange to
> >>> get the late fees waived after several phone calls and getting
> escalated
> >>> to upper management gophers. Fortunately we were able to re-establish
> >>> our credit and then had a couple of credit cards and stopped using the
> >>> debit card immediately.
> >>>
> >>> Now it seems almost like clock work every 9 months we're getting fraud
> >>> alerts on one of our cards so we don't have card numbers long enough to
> >>> expire. At one time we had 2 cards locked at about the same time, and
> >>> that was just in the last 6 months.
> >>>
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