[ale] [Fwd: Advertising on ale.org] - OT MS vs Apple vs Linux/UNIX

Jim Kinney jim.kinney at gmail.com
Tue Sep 15 13:30:36 EDT 2015 

Heh, heh :-)
My fav part of conspiracy theories is the part where in order to
believe the theory, one must also believe that an organization that
buys $900 hammers could actually get several hundred people that live
in modern society to coordinate an effort to do ANYTHING and keep it
completely secret. The Manhattan Project was leaking info daily. The
atomic bombs were known to exist prior to the first explosion and that
group of people was sequestered in the middle of the desert behind
barbed wire and armed guards.
On Tue, 2015-09-15 at 13:12 -0400, Charles Shapiro wrote:
> I love it when a Troll comes together.
> 
> -- CHS
> 
> 
> On Tue, Sep 15, 2015 at 12:08 PM, Jim Kinney <jim.kinney at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Oh man. There is _so_ much wrong with that. Halliburton subbed the
> > waste disposal to a Saudi partner firm as they got the gold
> > disposal from the north building basement. They already had the
> > commando team in place placing the charges so it made sense they
> > would extract the rail car filled with gold before the fire got to
> > that lower level. 
> > 
> > Sheesh. At least get your conspiracies correct 
> > 
> > :-)
> > 
> > On Tue, 2015-09-15 at 11:55,  -0400, Damon L. Chesser wrote:
> > >  
> > > 
> > > On 09/15/2015 10:47 AM, Scott Plante wrote:
> > > > Or when "9/11 Truthers" would argue that jet fuel doesn't burn
> > > > hot enough to melt the steel girders in the towers, I'd ask,
> > > > "but what about those tanks of chemicals they use to make the
> > > > chemtrails? Who knows how hot that stuff burns?"
> > > I wondered how the false flag commandos got the building to burn
> > > so well with the jet fuel.  Thanks for clearing that up for me. 
> > > Didn't Halliburton get the contract for waste disposal?  It all
> > > ties together now.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > > 
> > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemtrail_conspiracy_theory
> > > > 
> > > > From: "Charles Shapiro" <hooterpincher at gmail.com>
> > > > To: "Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts" <ale at ale.org>
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2015 9:31:15 AM
> > > > Subject: Re: [ale] [Fwd: Advertising on ale.org] - OT MS vs
> > > > Apple vs        Linux/UNIX
> > > > 
> > > > I chalk it all up to the Moon Landing Conspiracy. The moon
> > > > landings were all faked, in a studio ON THE MOON.
> > > > 
> > > > --  CHS
> > > > 
> > > > On Mon, Sep 14, 2015 at 4:58 PM, Damon L. Chesser <
> > > > damon at damtek.com> wrote:
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > On 09/12/2015 04:21 PM, Steve Litt wrote:
> > > > > >  On Sat, 12 Sep 2015 22:17:46 +0300
> > > > > > damon at damtek.com wrote:
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > >  Ahhh. No
> > > > > > > It is in response to the long thread and the strong
> > > > > > > opinions in the
> > > > > > > thread and in fact was not directed at you or anybody
> > > > > > > else
> > > > > > > specifically.  And IAW Godwin's law, I have now lost the
> > > > > > > debate.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > Yes, you have. Godwin's law doesn't work anymore, and it
> > > > > > was always in
> > > > > > bad taste.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > >  Seriously, it was merely meant in jest. Don't like
> > > > > > > systemd, don't use
> > > > > > > it. Like systemd, use it.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > The preceding two sentences encapsulate the entire issue.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > If systemd were just another modular, replaceable init,
> > > > > > everyone you
> > > > > > hear cursing it would be dancing in the streets. And truth
> > > > > > be told, a
> > > > > > lot of us might then choose to use systemd in certain use
> > > > > > cases.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > The problem is, systemd has been engineered from the ground
> > > > > > up to
> > > > > > exchange dependencies with every part of the Linux system.
> > > > > > The
> > > > > > motivations for doing this are up for debate, but most
> > > > > > folks who have
> > > > > > every alt-initted a system will vouch for this: Once you're
> > > > > > using a
> > > > > > distro that has incorporated systemd as PID1, replacing
> > > > > > systemd or any
> > > > > > part of it is very, very difficult.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > For instance, if you currently have sysvinit, OpenRC,
> > > > > > runit, s6 or
> > > > > > Epoch, switching to runit, s6 or Epoch involves installing
> > > > > > the new
> > > > > > init, making a new run script (runit or s6) or config
> > > > > > section (Epoch)
> > > > > > for each *real* process (not the tens of no-reason
> > > > > > processes and
> > > > > > one-shots run by systemd). Not trivial, but not difficult
> > > > > > for a Linux
> > > > > > knowledgeable person. You also have to make a shutdown
> > > > > > script, and you
> > > > > > can find a lot of boilerplate for that on the Internet.
> > > > > > It's also
> > > > > > possible that you'll need to make minor alterations to your
> > > > > > initramfs,
> > > > > > but that's actually doubtful.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Same thing with a systemd computer: Replace it with runit,
> > > > > > s6 or Epoch.
> > > > > > Now you need to find a udev equivalent, compile it, get it
> > > > > > working. Or
> > > > > > else you need to do a lot of workarounds with systemd's
> > > > > > udev. You need
> > > > > > to take dracut, and use it to create an initramfs that does
> > > > > > *nothing
> > > > > > but* mount the root partition, and then hand control to the
> > > > > > on-disk
> > > > > > init. As you do this, contemplate the trouble you'll be in
> > > > > > if the
> > > > > > systemd industry ever conquers dracut, the way it conquered
> > > > > > udev. If
> > > > > > so, you'll be back to hand-creating initramfs. And of
> > > > > > course you'll
> > > > > > need to do all the same things I mentioned when describing
> > > > > > alt-initting
> > > > > > a non-systemd box.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Consider that if sysvinit had been as monolithically
> > > > > > entangled with the
> > > > > > user portion of the OS (and the kernel if they get their
> > > > > > way with
> > > > > > kdbus) as systemd is, Red Hat would have had to spend
> > > > > > triple what they
> > > > > > did to create a replacement init. But like all the other
> > > > > > inits except
> > > > > > systemd, sysvinit is an encapsulated PID1 plus service
> > > > > > manager, so it
> > > > > > was easy to replace. The systemd industry climbed the
> > > > > > ladder of
> > > > > > modularity, and then pulled the ladder up after them.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > I understand you're probably init agnostic, and that's
> > > > > > fine. But you
> > > > > > need to be thankful for the people working hard to provide
> > > > > > alternatives
> > > > > > to the Redhat funded juggernaut, because if Redhat ever
> > > > > > succeeds in
> > > > > > eliminating alternatives to systemd, they'll have a
> > > > > > monopoly on Linux.
> > > > > > Most entities who gain a monopoly do not behave well, and
> > > > > > the user pays
> > > > > > the price.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > I am with Michael on this point.  I am init agnostic and just
> > > > > don't care, but to claim the evil empire of Red Hat is behind
> > > > > this?  Seems a bit bombastic?  We all know the freedom haters
> > > > > of Debian remove choice at every turn, and that is why they
> > > > > are backing the init choice of systemd.  Once Red Hat
> > > > > controls everything, then Debian can finally close down. Who
> > > > > needs those pesky Debian dev meetings anyway?  Always
> > > > > yammering about some social contract this and social contract
> > > > > that.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Gento wanted to give it's users only one choice, most like
> > > > > due to Red Hat financial interests, but the user base needed
> > > > > to be appeased, so they gave you a "choice" of which system
> > > > > to use when you installed it. Some choice.  Systemd or the
> > > > > old system!  Ha! Only two choices!  Proof they are in league!
> > > > > >  
> > > > > > SteveT
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Steve Litt
> > > > > > August 2015 featured book: Troubleshooting: Just the Facts
> > > > > > http://www.troubleshooters.com/tjust
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
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> > > > > > 
> > > > > -- 
> > > > > Damon at damtek.com
> > > > > 404-271-8699
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Ale mailing list
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> > > > 
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> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Ale mailing list
> > > > Ale at ale.org
> > > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> > > > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at
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> > > -- 
> > > Damon at damtek.com
> > > 404-271-8699
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Ale mailing list
> > > Ale at ale.org
> > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> > > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at
> > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo
> > -- 
> > James P. Kinney III
> > 
> > Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What
> > you
> > gain at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on
> > his
> > own tail. It won't fatten the dog.
> > - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain
> > 
> > http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/
> > 
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> > 
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-- 
James P. Kinney III

Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you
gain at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his
own tail. It won't fatten the dog.
- Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain

http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/

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