[ale] [Fwd: Advertising on ale.org] - OT MS vs Apple vs Linux/UNIX

Tue Sep 15 12:05:35 EDT 2015

WTC7 won't go away, folks.  😈

---
Jerald M. Sheets jr.

On Tue, Sep 15, 2015 at 10:52 AM, Pete Hardie <pete.hardie at gmail.com> wrote:

> +1 for that.
>
> On Tue, Sep 15, 2015 at 10:47 AM, Scott Plante <splante at insightsys.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Or when "9/11 Truthers" would argue that jet fuel doesn't burn hot enough
>> to melt the steel girders in the towers, I'd ask, "but what about those
>> tanks of chemicals they use to make the chemtrails? Who knows how hot that
>> stuff burns?"
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemtrail_conspiracy_theory
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> *From: *"Charles Shapiro" <hooterpincher at gmail.com>
>> *To: *"Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts" <ale at ale.org>
>> *Sent: *Tuesday, September 15, 2015 9:31:15 AM
>> *Subject: *Re: [ale] [Fwd: Advertising on ale.org] - OT MS vs Apple
>> vs        Linux/UNIX
>>
>> I chalk it all up to the Moon Landing Conspiracy. The moon landings were
>> all faked, in a studio ON THE MOON.
>>
>> --  CHS
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 14, 2015 at 4:58 PM, Damon L. Chesser <damon at damtek.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 09/12/2015 04:21 PM, Steve Litt wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sat, 12 Sep 2015 22:17:46 +0300
>>>> damon at damtek.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Ahhh. No
>>>>> It is in response to the long thread and the strong opinions in the
>>>>> thread and in fact was not directed at you or anybody else
>>>>> specifically.  And IAW Godwin's law, I have now lost the debate.
>>>>>
>>>> Yes, you have. Godwin's law doesn't work anymore, and it was always in
>>>> bad taste.
>>>>
>>>> Seriously, it was merely meant in jest. Don't like systemd, don't use
>>>>> it. Like systemd, use it.
>>>>>
>>>> The preceding two sentences encapsulate the entire issue.
>>>>
>>>> If systemd were just another modular, replaceable init, everyone you
>>>> hear cursing it would be dancing in the streets. And truth be told, a
>>>> lot of us might then choose to use systemd in certain use cases.
>>>>
>>>> The problem is, systemd has been engineered from the ground up to
>>>> exchange dependencies with every part of the Linux system. The
>>>> motivations for doing this are up for debate, but most folks who have
>>>> every alt-initted a system will vouch for this: Once you're using a
>>>> distro that has incorporated systemd as PID1, replacing systemd or any
>>>> part of it is very, very difficult.
>>>>
>>>> For instance, if you currently have sysvinit, OpenRC, runit, s6 or
>>>> Epoch, switching to runit, s6 or Epoch involves installing the new
>>>> init, making a new run script (runit or s6) or config section (Epoch)
>>>> for each *real* process (not the tens of no-reason processes and
>>>> one-shots run by systemd). Not trivial, but not difficult for a Linux
>>>> knowledgeable person. You also have to make a shutdown script, and you
>>>> can find a lot of boilerplate for that on the Internet. It's also
>>>> possible that you'll need to make minor alterations to your initramfs,
>>>> but that's actually doubtful.
>>>>
>>>> Same thing with a systemd computer: Replace it with runit, s6 or Epoch.
>>>> Now you need to find a udev equivalent, compile it, get it working. Or
>>>> else you need to do a lot of workarounds with systemd's udev. You need
>>>> to take dracut, and use it to create an initramfs that does *nothing
>>>> but* mount the root partition, and then hand control to the on-disk
>>>> init. As you do this, contemplate the trouble you'll be in if the
>>>> systemd industry ever conquers dracut, the way it conquered udev. If
>>>> so, you'll be back to hand-creating initramfs. And of course you'll
>>>> need to do all the same things I mentioned when describing alt-initting
>>>> a non-systemd box.
>>>>
>>>> Consider that if sysvinit had been as monolithically entangled with the
>>>> user portion of the OS (and the kernel if they get their way with
>>>> kdbus) as systemd is, Red Hat would have had to spend triple what they
>>>> did to create a replacement init. But like all the other inits except
>>>> systemd, sysvinit is an encapsulated PID1 plus service manager, so it
>>>> was easy to replace. The systemd industry climbed the ladder of
>>>> modularity, and then pulled the ladder up after them.
>>>>
>>>> I understand you're probably init agnostic, and that's fine. But you
>>>> need to be thankful for the people working hard to provide alternatives
>>>> to the Redhat funded juggernaut, because if Redhat ever succeeds in
>>>> eliminating alternatives to systemd, they'll have a monopoly on Linux.
>>>> Most entities who gain a monopoly do not behave well, and the user pays
>>>> the price.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I am with Michael on this point.  I am init agnostic and just don't
>>> care, but to claim the evil empire of Red Hat is behind this?  Seems a bit
>>> bombastic?  We all know the freedom haters of Debian remove choice at every
>>> turn, and that is why they are backing the init choice of systemd.  Once
>>> Red Hat controls everything, then Debian can finally close down. Who needs
>>> those pesky Debian dev meetings anyway?  Always yammering about some social
>>> contract this and social contract that.
>>>
>>> Gento wanted to give it's users only one choice, most like due to Red
>>> Hat financial interests, but the user base needed to be appeased, so they
>>> gave you a "choice" of which system to use when you installed it. Some
>>> choice.  Systemd or the old system!  Ha! Only two choices!  Proof they are
>>> in league!
>>>
>>>>
>>>> SteveT
>>>>
>>>> Steve Litt
>>>> August 2015 featured book: Troubleshooting: Just the Facts
>>>> http://www.troubleshooters.com/tjust
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Damon at damtek.com
>>> 404-271-8699
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
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>>
>
>
> --
> Pete Hardie
> --------
> Better Living Through Bitmaps
>
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