[ale] Chinese government recommendation - Linux

Sat May 24 09:15:20 EDT 2014

+1
On May 22, 2014 12:48 AM, "Jay Lozier" <jslozier at gmail.com> wrote:

>  From what I have observed, the biggest problem is that many people
> refuse to adapt to the changes in the work place. Changes require one
> learns new skills and sometimes reinvent one's self. Also, some tend to
> psych themselves out, setting themselves up for complete failure. Both are
> really attitude problems.
>
> Jay
>
>  On 05/22/2014 12:36 AM, Wolf Halton wrote:
>
> Or the IT grad students on the list... Or Anthro or Education researchers.
> People are strange about the level of interest they have just learning
> anything. My students also were differentiated more by attitude than
> aptitude. My pet theory is that a person who knows how to actively
> integrate the new info with their current store is going to have an easier
> time learning anything.
> On May 19, 2014 3:48 PM, "Tom Freeman" <tfreeman at intel.digichem.net>
> wrote:
>
>>
>> From conversations with students - the fact that a phone doesn't have the
>> same UI as a computer doesn't matter. Apparently (assuming I'm not making a
>> bigger idiot of myself than usual), a large percentage of the population
>> sees "phone" as a completely different beast than "computer" even if the
>> "phone" in question is working in the same fashion as their "computer". As
>> such, apparently "easy" and "hard" don't mean a whole lot.
>>
>> Wonder if one of the academic admins on this list could convince a
>> psychology researcher that there is a deep, probably long lasting, research
>> project here??
>>
>> On Mon, 19 May 2014, Jay Lozier wrote:
>>
>>  I partially agree, some users will not switch from their comfort zone at
>>> all. It does not matter if there is an excellent reason such as the OS
>>> is no
>>> longer supported. Others will switch easily.
>>>
>>> Also, if the UI is a problem, many users would have never used a
>>> smartphone
>>> or tablet with their very different UIs.
>>>
>>> The sysadmins could be a bigger problem if they refuse to update their
>>> skills. But there is a very serious stick available to bring them
>>> in-line:
>>> dismissal.
>>>
>>> About differences between CLI commands, I find the more I work with
>>> different OSes, distros, programming languages, etc. there is a lot of
>>> transferable knowledge. Yes there are differences that need to learned in
>>> syntax and terminology (Ruby hash vs Python dictionary) but the concepts
>>> are
>>> the same. As I use Linux more, the more comfortable I am with the CLI and
>>> sometime find it more convenient to use than a GUI.
>>>
>>> On 19/05/14 10:57, Lightner, Jeff wrote:
>>>
>>>       Uh no.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>       My point was that it is the end users that are the problem.
>>>       Saying “a desktop is a desktop” is all well and good but the
>>>       reason most organizations delayed upgrading from XP to Windows 7
>>>       was because even changes in Windows desktops are painful to roll
>>>       out to end users.  Telling them they have to go from Windows to
>>>       Linux (and change many of the underlying tools such as the
>>>       office suite) would be even more painful.  Not because it is
>>>       technically difficult but because people are resistant to change
>>>       AND because many people don’t really “understand” what is
>>>       happening when they do something.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>       My discussion of Admins was because we (UNIX/Linux admins at
>>>       least) are more likely to embrace change if for no other reason
>>>       than it is “cool” to learn new things.   Having said that
>>>       however, I have met a fair number of admins that didn’t want to
>>>       be bothered with learning the Solaris or HP-UX way if they
>>>       started on AIX or vice-versa.   In Windows admin land MS has
>>>       been weaning them off of GUIs for a while now and I’ve talked to
>>>       both the kind of MS Admin that rails against this and the type
>>>       that realizes how much more power they have with command line
>>>       tools.    In some shops the MS Admins are the ones who end up
>>>       working on the first Linux systems.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>       That doesn’t mean you can’t have your preferences (I loved
>>>       HP-UX) but you do need to learn the differences.   For me it has
>>>       all been fairly easy because I started on DOS went to Novell
>>>       then to UNIX and Xenix and finally Linux so I’ve seen the
>>>       progression.    The key is getting the basic tools/concepts and
>>>       transferring your knowledge to the new platform then building on
>>>       that with the esoteric behaviors unique to each.   I was first
>>>       introduced to command line in DOS and to “users” and “groups” in
>>>       Novell.  Both of those experiences lent themselves very well to
>>>       learning UNIX where essentially I just had to make myself a
>>>       cheat sheet of the different command names for the same
>>>       functions.  (type = cat, dir = ls, copy = cp, rename = mv etc…).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>       From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf
>>>       Of Jim Kinney
>>>       Sent: Monday, May 19, 2014 10:30 AM
>>>       To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
>>>       Subject: Re: [ale] Chinese government recommendation - Linux
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>       Hmm. Interesting point. Admins.
>>>
>>> From a user perspective, a desktop is a desktop is a desktop. Plenty
>>> of Windows people have switch to Mac and been productive is a short
>>> learning cycle. That suggests a new desktop _can_ be learned.
>>>
>>> But admins are another group altogether.
>>>
>>> How things are done behind the scenes is really, REALLY different
>>> between windows, Linux and Mac (and Solaris/Oracle, and between Linux
>>> variants, etc). The tools that exist to support admins for large scale
>>> deployments are radically different between the systems as the
>>> philosophy is extremely radically different between the systems.
>>>
>>> So I would put forward that the wholesale adoption of Linux will
>>> depend on the retraining of the existing admins so they are willing to
>>> tell upstream "sure, Linux will be useful here".
>>>
>>> Ha! Then maybe the Mac admins can work somewhere other than retail!
>>> 8D
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, May 19, 2014 at 8:56 AM, Lightner, Jeff
>>> <JLightner at dsservices.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> While I’d like to think Windows is on the way out I will say that this
>>> isn’t the first time its demise has been predicted.   Unfortunately
>>> there are way too many people (organizations especially) that are not
>>> willing to pull the plug because of the learning curve.   I know
>>> you’ll all say that Linux is easier etc… but the fact is MOST users
>>> don’t really understand computers and making them learn ANYTHING new
>>> is quite difficult.   (If you don’t believe that find out how long it
>>> took most organizations to get their executives off a blackberry
>>> products – if they have.)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I recall just a few years back where China and other governments were
>>> planning on making their own Linux distros but never saw much traction
>>> on that.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> It’s funny how things go.  M$’ stated reasoning for creating NT was to
>>> take over the UNIX market.  Instead they killed off Novell.   Linux on
>>> the other hand has made deep inroads into the former UNIX markets
>>> mainly because the admins that do one can do the other.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of
>>> Jim Kinney
>>> Sent: Sunday, May 18, 2014 8:11 AM
>>> To: Atlanta User Group (E-mail)
>>> Subject: Re: [ale] Chinese government recommendation - Linux
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Doc format is often required when there will be editing done. Often
>>> recruiters will strip contact data or even change layout. Internally,
>>> some places will add notes to résumés.
>>>
>>> On May 17, 2014 11:06 PM, "Boris Borisov" <bugyatl at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> I cannot count how many times is been required to send resume in .DOC
>>> format when I'm applying for IT positions. And this are people from
>>> IT. For government folk will take a lot more.
>>>
>>> On 5/18/14, Jay Lozier <jslozier at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> > Requiring open formats is actually OS agnostic but any movement in
>>> that
>>> > direction makes FOSS applications competitive. There was a UK
>>> proposal to
>>> > require ODF formats for all government documents a few months ago.
>>> There was
>>> > some discussion about this on the LO user list and the consensus was
>>> it
>>> > would hurt MS as it evens the playing field for all office suites
>>> Many
>>> > assumed if adopted that other vendors would be able to add ODF
>>> support
>>> > rather easily and FOSS alternatives (LO, AOO, and Calligra) would be
>>> > competing on merits. It would help Linux because the FOSS office
>>> suites on
>>> > Linux all use ODF as their native format However, on the LO user
>>> list, I
>>> > think the consensus was users would be more likely to switch suites
>>> rather
>>> > than OSes if the proposal was adopted.
>>> >
>>> > On 05/17/2014 07:22 PM, Wolf Halton wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> If several governments start requiring open formats, that will help
>>> too.
>>> >> Windows is on a downward trajectory.  They cannot decide if they
>>> want to
>>> >> stay on the desktop/laptop horse or fully commit to the
>>> phone/tablet
>>> >> horse, so they are about to find themselves on their collective
>>> butts
>>> >> between the ruts of the trails of those 2 horses, running away.
>>> >>
>>> >> Wolf Halton
>>> >>
>>> >> --
>>> >> This Apt Has Super Cow Powers - http://sourcefreedom.com
>>> >> Security in the Cloud - http://AtlantaCloudTech.com
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> On Fri, May 16, 2014 at 8:47 PM, Jay Lozier <jslozier at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Hi,
>>> >>>
>>> >>> I saw a link to this article on Softpedia (from Ostatic):
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> http://news.softpedia.com/news/Chinese-Government-Says-on-TV-that-Windows-X
>>> P-Users-Must-Choose-Linux-441889.shtml
>>> >>>
>>> >>> The article noted the Chinese government is beginning to push
>>> Chinese XP
>>> >>> users to consider adopting Linux. It did note that many user
>>> preferred
>>> >>> applications do not have a Linux version currently available. But
>>> often
>>> >>> there are FOSS equivalents available that are suitable for many
>>> users. It
>>> >>> also noted that Russia and Germany are actively pursuing Linux.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> My take is this is probably what Linux needs to get market
>>> traction; a
>>> >>> very large market to switch to Linux. If the Chinese convert to
>>> mostly
>>> >>> Linux hardware vendors and commercial software vendors will need
>>> to
>>> >>> support Linux or abandon the Chinese market. Other than the
>>> unmentionable
>>> >>> I believe most vendors will follow market trends. If the trends is
>>> >>> towards Linux, they will follow.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> --
>>> >>> Jay Lozier
>>> >>> jslozier at gmail.com
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
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>>> >
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > Jay Lozier
>>> > jslozier at gmail.com
>>>
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>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> --
>>> James P. Kinney III
>>>
>>> Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you
>>> gain at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his
>>> own tail. It won't fatten the dog.
>>> - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain
>>>
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>
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>
> --
> Jay Lozierjslozier at gmail.com
>
>
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