[ale] Are the kernel developers a-holes? (was: Debian fork thoughts?)
pizza at shaftnet.org
Wed Dec 3 14:22:23 EST 2014
On Wed, Dec 03, 2014 at 01:07:38PM -0500, James Sumners wrote:
> > > But they don't do most of that before they've already managed to get
> > > the project to be a major dependency of other projects.
> Uh, hello, systemd and pulseaudio? GNOME? Do these ring a bell?
systemd and pulseaudio are both actively developed and maintained, far
from abandoned or unsupported.
Meanwhile, GNOME is developed by independent third parties, and their
design choices and the dependencies they choose to require are entirely
> http://cgit.freedesktop.org/pulseaudio/pulseaudio/ -- Creator doesn't seem
> to have committed in at least 5 years on this thing no one wanted.
Pulseaudio is actively developed, with major releases roughly every 6-9
months. So what if Pottering hasn't committed anything in five years?
Is he (or anyone else, for that matter) somehow obligated to perpetually
...As for "no one wanted" -- Again, .
As a counter point, here's something from six years or so ago:
Speaking for myself, I was quite happy when Fedora integrated
PulseAudio. I finally had application-transparent,
multi-stream/multi-output desktop audio comparable to what was shipped
as a core component of Windows Vista. Most of the pusleaudio teeth
gnashing was due to Ubuntu 8.04 (and several subsequent releases)
shipping badly misconfigured and poorly-tested configurations and then
refusing to fix things properly. In comparison, Fedora's Pulseaudio
support of the same era was stable and worked, aside from bugs in stuff
like the perpetual train wreck that is the proprietary Flash plugin.
Given that Tso's gripes were about NetworkManager, polkit, and GNOME's
failings, has mostly good things to say about systemd, and the bugs he
found are a combination of the the fact he's using debian-testing and
mangling configurations that he admits he didn't actually understand
(nor did he want to take the time to understand) ...this doesn't
actually support your assertion.
> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=76935 ->
A genuine bug that has been fixed even before it had been reported, but
the problem that erupted the bug report stemmed from differning
interpretations of the kernel->userspace API. The end-result is that
*both* the kernel and systemd made changes, and life went on.
See comment 22 for a good summary:
(Incidentally, Phoronix is sort of like the New York Post or Daily Mail
of Linux; While Larabel does a lot of good work with his PTS efforts,
it seems like he kinda misses the point with his editorializing,
protraying normal, day-to-day events as having far more
significance than they deserve. And the forums are barely better than
reddit or 4chan.. )
Meanwhile, I'm still waiting for you to support your assertions that the
systemd developers "have a history of dumping projects no one asked for
on the community and then not supporting them [...] or plain abandoning
them [...] before they've already managed to get the project to be a
major dependency of other projects."
Or are you still asserting that folks are obliged to perpetually
develop, support, or otherwise contribute to any software they've ever
been involved with?
Solomon Peachy pizza at shaftnet dot org
Delray Beach, FL ^^ (email/xmpp) ^^
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.
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