[ale] mint 13 vm running out of storage space

[Ron Frazier (ALE)]

Hi all,

I will post a few more thoughts.  After that, I really must do something besides email today.

This first part is not a direct reply to Mike T, but it speaks to the concepts of FOSS vs non FOSS, and were some of the thoughts I had while and after reviewing Mike's and Phil's messages.

Part of this is about motives for using, or not using, FOSS.  A related issues is motives for developing, or not developing FOSS.

I understand that many here promote and use FOSS / FLOSS software for philosophical reasons.  I agree with most of those reasons and understand many of the benefits of doing so.  I use a number of FOSS programs, even on my Windows systems.  In fact, I prefer it when I can use key programs on Windows, Linux, and Android to a point.  And, if they're free to me, so much the better.

I actually agree with the OSS more than the F / FL part, in terms of whether software MUST be free.  And I certainly would promote open standards.

There is nothing free about free software.  Not for the developers.  Check out this link and quote.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Source_lines_of_code

<quote on>

David A. Wheeler studied the Red Hat distribution of the Linux operating system, and reported that Red Hat Linux version 7.1 (released April 2001) contained over 30 million physical SLOC. He also extrapolated that, had it been developed by conventional proprietary means, it would have required about 8,000 man-years of development effort and would have cost over $1 billion (in year 2000 U.S. dollars).

A similar study was later made of Debian GNU/Linux version 2.2 (also known as "Potato"); this operating system was originally released in August 2000. This study found that Debian GNU/Linux 2.2 included over 55 million SLOC, and if developed in a conventional proprietary way would have required 14,005 man-years and cost $1.9 billion USD to develop. 

Later runs of the tools used report that the following release of Debian had 104 million SLOC, and as of year 2005, the newest release is going to include over 213 million SLOC. One can find figures of major operating systems (the various Windows versions have been presented in a table above).

</quote off>

The chart on this page shows that Debian 5 contains about 324 Million lines of code.  This is 5.9 x the number of lines shown in the study for Debian 2.2.  Thus, a little extrapolation shows that Debian 5, if developed from scratch and using the proprietary methods, might have cost $ 11 BILLION dollars and taken 82,630 man-YEARS to develop.

I could not find authoritative documentation on Windows quickly.  However, this article:

http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/250408-Vista-cost-10-Billions-to-develop

speculates that Vista alone cost Microsoft $ 10 Billion to develop.  This may be overly high, but is in line with the Debian estimate.

I think it's INCOMPREHENSIBLY FABULOUS that I can just go and download Debian (for example), an $ 11 Billion dollar OS, and use it - if it meets my needs.  That's GREAT!  Why all those people contributed those 82,630 man-years at no charge, I have no idea.  I'm sure everyone has different motives.

BUT, if I were running a corporation, with say, 1000 developers, and I were paying that overhead, and that $ 10 - 11 Billion was actually coming out of my corporate resources, would I make it FOSS and give it away?  Hell no.  My objective is not to spend $ 10 - 11 Billion just to improve the planet.  My objective, is to sell enough copies of the software to recoup that cost and make a profit, not give it away.  Just simple economics.  Now, it would be nice if I would contribute a portion of my profits back to help the planet.

So, I agree that it's great when software is free to me as a user, and like to use some of it.  But, I don't agree that software has to be free, and, in fact, it has to be not free, sometimes, in order to provide the incentive for a developer to spend the time and resources necessary to develop it.

Now, back to my situation.  My perspective is as a user who has a heterogeneous mixture of software, hardware, technology, and experience accumulated for more than a decade.

Were I a new user, knowing what I now know about linux and Windows, and were I doing things from scratch, I would probably try to go all linux, as I did with my bitcoin mining machine.  Were I recommending something to a new user, without heavy ties to the Windows OS / ecosystem, and without esoteric needs, I would probably recommend all linux - IF they WERE a geek or HAD a geek to maintain it.

But, that's not the case with me.  So, Mike T and Phil, what you're essentially telling me is that I could spend weeks reconfiguring everything I own, copying data, installing things, learning new maintenance and configuration and backup procedures, and possibly buying new equipment.  And, in so doing, I could get back to about the same level of functionality that I have now.  Plus, the pc's would be somewhat easier to maintain and somewhat more secure, given my usage habits.

I just don't have a strong motive to do that.

See a few more specific comments inline below.

Sincerely,

Ron



"Michael B. Trausch" <mbt at naunetcorp.com> wrote:

>On 10/14/2013 11:43 AM, Ron Frazier (ALE) wrote:
>> Those include:
>>
>> * running my scanner
>
>Check out SANE.  If your scanner doesn't work with SANE becuase there
>is
>no driver for it, change your scanner out for a new one.  List your old
>one on eBay, and get one that has a driver for SANE instead.
>

good to know

>> * running my remote wireless weather station
>
>I don't see why that wouldn't be possible with Linux.  Linux and
>wireless applications go hand-in-hand together.
>

app is win specific

>> * remote controlling my Dad's windows box
>
>I remote control Windows boxes all the time.  No, I don't have Windows
>installed.  I do it from Fedora.
>

please elaborate, as I may need to do that at some point in the future

>> * printing to my brother laser printer - generally works, sometimes
>garbles pages
>
>Brother laser printers are notoriously stupid.  Many of them do not
>speak standard languages.
>
>If you want to acquire a printer that speaks a standard PDL and can be
>used by (literally!) every operating system in existence (and has
>existed for the past 20 or 30 years), get a PostScript printer.  Most
>Lexmark laser printers speak PostScript.  Many HP printers do, as well.
>
>PCL works just as well in many circumstances, so if you have a PCL
>printer but not a PostScript printer, that'll work too.
>
>> * running foxit pdf reader - only a very old version is available for
>linux
>
>So?  Use evince.  Or xpdf.  Or even Adobe Reader 9.  PDF support is
>just
>fine.
>
>> * playing blu ray discs - linux cannot
>
>It can't?  That's news to me.  I do it on my Fedora system.
>

I thought that a) encryption was not cracked, b) encryption changes, and c) it was illegal - although I certainly wouldn't MIND viewing my own blu-ray discs on a linux machine or vm.

>> * multiple monitor setup - I have a triple monitor setup.  I don't
>think Mint 13 or Ubuntu 12.04 can run three monitors at all, except in
>clone mode.  In extended desktop mode, with two monitors, it
>consistently assigns the wrong monitor as "primary".  Thus new apps
>start up on the wrong monitor, etc.  I spent 2 hours messing with x
>commands and xrander, etc. to fix that one time.  Then, a later update
>unfixed it.  In some cases, when running on different pc's through a
>kvm, the wrong screen resolution is detected, and enforced.
>
>Uhm... Multiple-head support Just Works with 2 or 3 heads since about
>Fedora 18, and has worked upstream even longer than that.  I do it on
>my
>system.

Perhaps Ubuntu / Mint is more finicky about this than Fedora.

>> * running flash - I think Adobe stopped updating flash for linux,
>which is a security risk.
>
>So?  Mitigate with knowledge, or don't use it at all.  I don't use it
>at
>all.  I miss nothing.
>
>> * running scrivner - a writers program for storyboarding and
>constructing novels, etc.
>
>There are alternative programs available, but have you attempted to run
>this program under Wine?
>
>> * running the metatrader currency trading program (whenever I can
>find money to trade with)
>
>Again, have you tried Wine for this program?
>

I'm aware of wine and had it installed on my old Ubuntu install before I fired them and went to Mint.  I haven't tried these apps in it.

>> * updating my gps
>
>Why not?  I've updated TomTom units without Microsoft Windows just
>fine.  You have to jump through a couple more hoops because they don't
>document how to do so manually, but it's not hard to figure out.
>

I have a TomTom.  Can you point me to some info on that?

>> * updating my mp3 player from sansa
>
>Never worked with one.
>
>> * updating my ebook readers
>
>Not sure why you need a computer to do that at all.
>

Mainly talking about firmware updates on these things.  Any pc can transfer files by usb.  Some of the ebooks are protected and require Adobe Digital Editions.  That may be the wrong name, but it's something like that.

Oh, I forgot, last time I checked, I cannot listen to Audible.com books on linux, although that could have changed.  I do have an Audible player on android.

>> I will also admit that, sometimes, linux can do things for me that W
>cannot.
>
>Interesting that there is no list for that.
>

Nothing personal.

I wasn't trying to list that at the time.  And, I can't think of too much to add to it.  But, to be fair, here are some:

* allow me to build a pc with little or know software cost
* allow me to avoid yearly licence fees and periodic upgrade fees
* allow me to read the source code ( a benefit I very rarely use)
* allow me to boot an alternate os to troubleshoot the main os with dual boot or live cd
* allow the pc to be more secure

>    --- Mike
>
>-- 
>Naunet Corporation Logo 	Michael B. Trausch
>
>President, *Naunet Corporation*
>? (678) 287-0693 x130 or (855) NAUNET-1 x130
>FAX: (678) 783-7843
>
>



--

Sent from my Android Acer A500 tablet with bluetooth keyboard and K-9 Mail.
Please excuse my potential brevity if I'm typing on the touch screen.

(PS - If you email me and don't get a quick response, you might want to
call on the phone.  I get about 300 emails per day from alternate energy
mailing lists and such.  I don't always see new email messages very quickly.)

Ron Frazier
770-205-9422 (O)   Leave a message.
linuxdude AT techstarship.com
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