[ale] [semi OT] encouraging and discouraging HDD and SSD observations

[Brian MacLeod]

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On 11/1/13 8:44 PM, Ron Frazier (ALE) wrote:

> Observation 1) 80's vintage dehumidifier lasts 20 years. 2010's 
> vintage dehumidifier lasts one year. Conclusion 1) 10's vintage 
> dehumidifiers are more crappy.
> 
> Observation 2) Fuel Pumps.  I don't remember ever replacing a fuel 
> pump in my entire life in a car prior to 2010. I've had to replace 
> the one in our '07 Hyundai Sonata. My dad has just replaced his
> fuel pump for the 2nd or 3rd time in two months. Mechanic says runs
> of 3-5 bad ones from the factory are common. Conclusion 2) Modern
> low end fuel pumps are more crappy.
> 
> Observation 3) Hard Drives.  Rather than talking time, let's talk 
> capacity. In my own experience, before capacities exceeded 500 GB, 
> having a HDD run 5 years was fairly common. 5 year warranties were 
> fairly common. And, warranty claims were rare. Right now, I'm
> about to replace my 3rd or 4th Seagate 1 TB drive within 2 years.
> I'm replacing the replacement drive. Conclusion 3) Modern hard
> drives, particularly big ones, and more particularly big refurb
> ones, are more crappy.


Fault #1: your observations are not the end all - be all of how
everyone else experiences things, but you are making assumptions based
on your experiences, which, in part, are based on your choices.

Now, I can't speak to humidifiers nor to fuel pumps, but I'll run with
hard drives since I've played with models from the ST225 on up, and
I'll comment on general economic principles.

Fault #2: Market demand is for cheaper.  You can attribute all you
want to demons running corporations, but when the people who buy these
things keep wanting prices to go down, there is an inherent pressure
to find cheaper modes of production.  Sometimes, everyone gets lucky
and a cheaper and BETTER mode is found.  Sometimes, it's just cheaper,
and we see the effects.

Hard drives are one of the parts especially sensitive to this because
of the advent of cheaper non-mechanical means of storage.  So over
time, it has become necessary to shorten warranties because some of
these products have to be made cheaper, with less resilient parts.
Most hard drive manufacturers now have multiple classes of drive
technologies available, including enterprise class which is generally
more resilient than anything you could ever buy a Walmart.

But there's an extra price to be paid for that resiliency.  And most
people will NEVER bother to do so, which is why Wally World, Fry's and
MicroCenter (and various other purveyors) will always seem to you as
to be selling low quality materials.  Because they are, and because
they got you to come in believing it should be that cheap.  And you
buy the cheap stuff.

You want quality, you have to pay for it, and there has to be enough
people to want to pay for it for someone to make it.  But all it takes
is a look at Walmart and Amazon's financials to see that people LOVE
cheap.  And they will buy it in droves.


> Let's define failing.  I define a hard drive failure as a
> condition which makes me no longer able to trust the drive with my
> data.  This usually manifests itself as increasing numbers of read
> errors or reallocated sectors.
> 
> Very simple.  The warranty on the box says 5 year warranty.  I'm a 
> very light user, except that the pc runs 24 x 7 in fair weather. 
> However, it's usually very lightly loaded with a few exceptions of 
> short periods of intense usage.



I ride a motorcycle.  Mine is a used unit.  I am a casual weekend
rider, so it generally gets light usage.  But say one day, I decide
I'm going to take a trip to Road Atlanta and race it.

Do you really think that bike will survive that?  NO.  Mixing usage
cases for mechanical equipment is generally one of the WORST things
you can do.  If it needs to be light, keep it light.  If it needs to
be intense, never let up, but don't shift gears on equipment like that
or you will help cause the failure.

You adamant adherence to Spinriting the hell out of your drives after
periods of light usage is part of why you are killing your own drives,
and then blaming it on the manufacturer.

If you're going to be hard on your drives, ever, keep it that way.



> The drive I'm about to replace was a replacement.  It's a refurb
> that they sent me to take care of my last warranty claim less than
> a year ago.  The new warranty period only extends to the end of the
> original period.  I have no problem with that.  But, the refurb
> drive has been in service less than 1 year.  There is simply no way
> it should be doing throwing errors at this time, especially since
> it is supposed to be a replacement for a 5 year drive.


It's a refurb.  I expect it to fail.  I plan for it to fail.  Your
failure to plan for it does not mean the company is at fault.


> Here's what a 5 year warranty on the box should mean.  This
> product will almost always last 5 years or more, and in the
> unlikely event that it doesn't, we'll make it right by replacing it
> at no charge.
> 
> So, a product with a 5 year warranty generally SHOULD NOT fail
> within the warranty.  It should last 5 years plus.  Warranty claims
> should be rare.


The king says "make it so."

By the way, I now require you to have a 5 year warranty on anything
you ever sell me, because that's how it should be, and there's no
wiggle room here.


> They will, as far as I know, replace the drive.  That still costs a
> $ 15 service charge to get the replacement here and provide me with
> a return box and shipping label.  The point is, that if they had
> held up their end of the bargain in making a drive that would
> indeed last 5 years as the box said, then they wouldn't have to
> hold up their end by replacing it and I would't have to be
> returning my 3rd or 4th of this product.


Part of making the product cheaper is making the shipping costs of
replacements come from the user of the material.  It appears you have
failed to convince the rest of the market to go along with a higher
price to offset this.  Most people seem content with this policy, and
so it continues on.

One person does not shape a market.

Since the market has been trending in this manner, it is prudent to
plan accordingly.

I see what amounts to very short term planning and a lot of whining
because it isn't the way you'd do things.  Nice to get it off your
chest, right?

Not so fun having to keep dealing with this on the list.  Go to
clarkhoward.com and complain there.



bnm
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