[ale] If you own (almost) ANY HDD, repartition with 4k boundaries

Wed Mar 20 00:08:51 EDT 2013

Thanks for the info Matt and Ron.

Grrrrrr, planned obsolescence.

I guess fat32 wouldn't make any difference.
On Mar 19, 2013 7:19 PM, "Matt Hessel" <matt.hessel at gmail.com> wrote:

> When the drives were first introduced, the vendors did say that
> you “could” use them in windows XP, as long as you had the latest service
> pack, but they also said that performance would suffer, and there would be
> some issues even then.
>
> From memory, Windows XP does not use 4k allocations, so even with the
> software support for using the drive, the writes would assume 512k boundary
> limits, which would impose a significant speed penalty, as sequential
> writes would be delayed by at least a full spin of the platter between
> writes to the same sector on the drive.
>
> Compatibility was achived in part by the manufacturer presenting the drive
> as a 4k ‘desired’ volume with 512k sectors, windows vista and later would
> know that meant to use the 1k/4k allocation method, and ignore the 512k
> sector size reported.
>
> Important to know also, that the ability to use this on windows XP is
> limited - Seagate moved to 4k, and does not use the compatible ‘hack’
> above, the geometry only has the 4k sectors, and even though it does not
> state so on the box, will only work on Vista or above.
>
> On the server side, 4k is a bigger issue, as the integrated backup
> software that comes with it is based on the same application in windows XP
> (even on server 2008 R2, which is based on Windows 7 as a base)  and
> Microsoft has docs in TechNet stating that the software is not able to
> write to 4K enabled disks.  To backup windows xp or server you need
> aftermarket software unless you have 512k disks as the backup destination..
>
>
>
>  *From:* Ron Frazier (ALE)
> *Sent:* March 19, 2013 11:48 AM
> *To:* justgold79 at gmail.com
> *Subject:* Re: [ale] If you own (almost) ANY HDD, repartition with 4k
> boundaries
>
> **
> Hi Justin,
>
> I had bet Phil that he couldn't get XP running on a 4 K sector drive,
> under certain criteria.  He accepted the bet and eventually won it.  He can
> fill in the details.  At this point, I have not personally ran XP with a 4K
> sector drive.  I pulled out some links which may help you.
>
> At the very least, you probably need sata drivers updated as of mid 2010,
> ahci mode on mb, and xp sp 3 with latest patches.  Even if the unit boots,
> I wouldn't trust it without testing it for a while, including updates.  My
> Win 7 machine looked like it was working for a while then I started getting
> data corruption.  I jumped through all kinds of hoops, but updating the
> sata driver appears to have been the ultimate fix.
>
> This is my message which started the thread, and which describes my
> initially failed attempt to get my Win 7 running on a 4 K sector drive.
>
>      http://www.ale.org/pipermail/ale/2013-January/139605.html
>
> A comment by Phil re XP
>
>      http://www.ale.org/pipermail/ale/2013-January/139638.html
>
> A response to a comment by me regarding XP patch support ending
>
>      http://www.ale.org/pipermail/ale/2013-January/139648.html
>
> The imfamous bet
>
>      http://www.ale.org/pipermail/ale/2013-January/139662.html
>
> He takes me up on it
>
>      http://www.ale.org/pipermail/ale/2013-January/139663.html
>
> I clarify the conditions
>
>      http://www.ale.org/pipermail/ale/2013-January/139667.html
>
> Phil further clarifies and accepts
>
>      http://www.ale.org/pipermail/ale/2013-January/139676.html
>
> Note that the hard drive he used has Seagate's SmartAllign technology
> which reduces migration problems.  This may be a feature you want to look
> for.
>
> http://www.seagate.com/internal-hard-drives/desktop-hard-drives/barracuda-green/
>
> Background data from MS regarding 4K drives and Win XP.
>
>      http://www.ale.org/pipermail/ale/2013-January/139785.html
>
> 10 steps you need to consider when converting to a 4K drive.
>
>      http://www.ale.org/pipermail/ale/2013-January/139797.html
>
> Phil describes how he won.
>
>      http://www.ale.org/pipermail/ale/2013-January/139881.html
>
> I had to concede
>
>      http://www.ale.org/pipermail/ale/2013-January/139885.html
>
> That should give you lots of good information to think about.
>
> Also, here is some info on SSD's that I posted previously that you might
> find interesting.
>
> Thread from Sept 2012 on SSD remaining lifetime indicator
>
>      http://www.ale.org/pipermail/ale/2012-September/137821.html
>
> SSD Info you need to know thread
>
>      http://www.ale.org/pipermail/ale/2012-September/137831.html
>
> Some of the sources for my original post
>
>      http://www.ale.org/pipermail/ale/2012-September/137874.html
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Ron
>
>
> On 3/19/2013 9:02 AM, Justin Goldberg wrote:
>
> What was the resolution? Does XP not like 4k drives? I'm thinking of
> getting a larger drive for my laptop and switching to ssd in the process,
> which is very likely to be manufactured post 2011.
> On Jan 18, 2013 9:36 AM, "Phil Turmel" <philip at turmel.org> wrote:
>
>> On 01/17/2013 11:11 PM, Ron Frazier (ALE) wrote:
>> > Hi Phil,
>> >
>> > It was good to meet you tonight.  Sorry I couldn't hang around longer.
>> >
>> > What enjoyable beverage (or food) did you get with your winnings?
>>
>> The Tommy Knocker ale.  Thank you. :-)
>>
>> > Jim, enjoyed the presentation tonight.
>>
>> I, too.  Thanks, Jim.
>>
>> Phil
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>
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> --
>
> (PS - If you email me and don't get a quick response, you might want to
> call on the phone.  I get about 300 emails per day from alternate energy
> mailing lists and such.  I don't always see new email messages very quickly.)
>
> Ron Frazier770-205-9422 (O)   Leave a message.
> linuxdude AT techstarship.com
>
>
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