[ale] a quick test of web site stupid

[Jay Lozier]

On 03/06/2013 04:44 PM, Jim Kinney wrote:
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 4:10 PM, Matt Hessel <matt.hessel at gmail.com 
> <mailto:matt.hessel at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     I see the idea behind the certification, but in practice that
>     seems mostly useful to employers when hiring individuals with
>     little on their resume.
>
>
This is different than a certification because there would be 
design/development standards required that are vendor independent.
> It's not for employers. It's for lawyers and judges to use as a 
> bludgeon to make companies use good practices is coding for public 
> consumption. If company FOO is in software development, and they 
> provide code for banking, they MUST have a certified banking code 
> engineer on staff and sign off on the code or else that code is not 
> legal to use for banking. Or they can pay a banking code engineering 
> firm to evaluate their code and sign off if it suits the engineers 
> standards.
>
> If mom-n-pop company hires a developer to put up a web site, they 
> don't need a certified engineer to approve anything UNTIL they add 
> something like shopping site with credit card stuff. If their website 
> gets defaced because they hired an idiot, that's their problem. If 
> their website gets hacked and credit card data is stolen, then it's a 
> criminal offense on them for deploying code that was not approved by a 
> professional engineer. I see drop-in certified modules for various 
> platforms to do this.
This would help PHB inline; just tell them they will have an all expense 
paid multi-year vacation in the prison system.
>
> I can't build a bridge for public use until I am a certified, tested 
> and passed Professional Engineer. As a PE, it's MY name on the line 
> for the stuff I sign off on. So a PE won't approve crap. Is it a 
> perfect system? Nope. But it keeps slick talking idiots from building 
> bridges and practicing law and medicine.
Legally, there are slick idiots who manage to fool people from time to time.
>
> A person who passes a PE exam doesn't need much else on their resume. 
> It's not possible to pass without mountains of knowledge and/or 
> experience. There is already a Professional Software Engineer license 
> process. What is needed is to add HIPPA and Banking modules (or more 
> generically - data security) and then require that places that use 
> software in these fields have X years to be using certified, compliant 
> software or they get shut down, fined out the ass or both for repeated 
> violations. "Market forces" can't fix this crap. It's like why we all 
> drive on the right hand side of the road. Someone decided we have to 
> clean up the mess and made it happen.
>
> like i need another project....
>
Being from another engineering field you need the PE to review and sign 
off on the design. Also, for a PE it is a multi-step process of tests 
and experience. I believe there is an education requirement that you 
must have a physical science or engineering (BS level or higher) to be 
allowed to take any exam.  You must pass the EIT - Engineer-in-Training 
exam for a specific engineering discipline (Civil, Chemical, Electrical, 
etc), then you must work in the field for several years before you can 
even take the PE exam in the same field. I believe there are continuing 
education requirements for a PE license.

What I have seen is the PE requires the vendor to submit all design/load 
calculations for review with the drawings and documentation. The PE must 
approve the submission before you have permission to proceed; there 
might be a couple of rounds of submissions before approval. Competent 
vendors know what is needed and often will only have the finalize the 
details for the submission.

-- 
Jay Lozier
jslozier at gmail.com

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