[ale] OT CFL cleanup / LED light bulbs starting to become affordable

Wed Jul 3 19:16:19 EDT 2013

there is no debate. All that remains is ignorance and a huge dose of greed
from those who will lose the most money if humans do what they must to keep
a home that will support humans. Evolution is a slow process. Crop failure
is fast. Starvation is a miserable way to go. Ask Africa.

On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 at 6:39 PM, Ron Frazier (ALE) <
atllinuxenthinfo at techstarship.com> wrote:

>
>
> Jim Kinney <jim.kinney at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 at 1:54 PM, Ron Frazier (ALE) <
> >atllinuxenthinfo at techstarship.com> wrote:
> >
> >>  I've read scientific documents that indicate that global warming is
> >> probably not caused fundamentally by humans.
> >>
> >
> >I strongly doubt those "scientific reports" have been peer reviewed by
> >actual scientists. The one scientist (out of several thousand in the
> >field)
> >that was bad-mouthing human-caused global warming was eventually paid
> >by
> >the Koch brothers to review the real scientific data that all the other
> >scientists were getting, reviewing and analyzing. After more than a
> >year of
> >analysis even he admitted he was wrong and that humans are actively
> >causing
> >climate change due to CO2 emissions (overwhelmingly CO2 even as other
> >gasses are for more problematic at heat trapping than CO2) and EVERY
> >SINGLE
> >ARGUMENT AGAINST IT WAS WRONG.
> >
> >Let me be clear on that last point. The only actual scientist to come
> >forward and argue against global warming existing and being caused by
> >humans finally sat down and did his job and evaluated the data,
> >methodology
> >and analysis techniques and concluded that the real scientists were all
> >correct and correctly answered every, single complaint the denialists
> >could
> >muster.
> >
> >The Koch bros were furious and are now fighting the impending CO2
> >emissions
> >limitations on other fronts.
> >
> >
> >
> >--
> >--
> >James P. Kinney III
> >*
> >*Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you
> >gain
> >at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own
> >tail.
> >It won't fatten the dog.
> >- Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain
> >*
> >http://electjimkinney.org
> >http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/
> >*
>
> This is now getting very off topic, but here goes.
>
> I'll preface this by saying this is not something I have the resources to
> research and argue vigorously.  Nor would I want to get into a flame war
> with anyone.  It obviously evokes strong emotions.  However, what I read
> years ago, and I don't know where, exactly, was information that said there
> were hundreds, if not thousands of scientists that had worked with the UN
> on this research, and they had dissenting opinions, and that they were
> censured because their opinion was not politically correct.  Thou shalt not
> find any scientific evidence to contradict our preconceived opinion, and
> thou shalt certainly not get published if you do.  The reason there's
> little dissent in public reports, is that the organizing bodies refused to
> allow the dissent.  If you count all the opinions, there is far from a
> universal consensus.
>
> There is debate on whether the planet is even warming up on a long term
> basis.  Even if it is, the magnitude of nature is far above the magnitude
> of man's influence.  The most likely scenario is that forces we can neither
> measure, control, or predict, like the sun's internal processes, or
> climatological patterns, are causing warming.  The warming is causing
> carbon dioxide to increase.  Not the other way around.  It's a question of
> what is the cause and what is the effect.  Most likely, we have that
> equation backwards.
>
> Even IF the planet is warming and even IF humans are having a material
> affect on it and even IF there is a tipping point at which a series of
> catastrophic things happen to our atmosphere,  all highly dubious, we as
> humans, with our puny understanding of the systems, are incapable of
> predicting that tipping point or knowing what will happen afterwards.  They
> cannot even get a 5 day forecast right, much less a 500 year one.
>
> I say again that I'm not the least bit concerned about my or my vendors'
> carbon dioxide emissions, per se.  It is a vital and normal part of nature.
>  Let's go back before man's influence.  What did you have?  You had a bunch
> of plants that had absorbed CO2 and turned it into hydrocarbons in their
> cells.  Dinosaurs and animals ate the plants and sometimes ate each other,
> storing more and more hydrocarbons.  They died, got buried, and turned into
> peat, coal, natural gas, and various types of petroleum.  When we burn it,
> we're just releasing the CO2 that was there in the first place.
>
> I AM concerned about them dumping TCE in our rivers, about asbestos, about
> wasting natural resources, about numerous other things coming from tail
> pipes and smoke stacks and drain pipes that are harmful to our planet.  I
> try to be as conservative as I practically can, but the key word is
> practically.  I do not intend to ride a bicycle or a horse everywhere, nor
> do I intend to live without electricity.
>
> These are my opinions.  I'll admit I could be wrong.  I'll also admit that
> no one an prove it.  The science, such as it is, on this topic is
> surrounded by political issues, money issues, hyperbole, and a million
> different assumptions about history, climate, nature, cosmic weather,
> meteorology, and other things that we cannot prove.  It's an intellectual
> house of cards.  If you believe the Bible, the Earth is from 10,000 -
> 100,000 years old.  If you believe evolution, it's millions to billions of
> years old.  Regardless, our conclusions based on a puny 400 years or so of
> actual records is virtually meaningless when compared to these time scales.
>  Our overall understanding of these extraordinarily incredibly complex
> multi variable system like our climate is correspondingly puny.  Any
> assumptions based on extrapolations to times prior to our actual
> observations are virtually worthless, as there are too many assumptions
> which the assumptions are based on.
>
> Again, I would not want to fight over any of this, but those are my
> thoughts.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Ron
>
>
>
> --
>
> Sent from my Android Acer A500 tablet with bluetooth keyboard and K-9 Mail.
> Please excuse my potential brevity if I'm typing on the touch screen.
>
> (PS - If you email me and don't get a quick response, you might want to
> call on the phone.  I get about 300 emails per day from alternate energy
> mailing lists and such.  I don't always see new email messages very
> quickly.)
>
> Ron Frazier
> 770-205-9422 (O)   Leave a message.
> linuxdude AT techstarship.com
> Litecoin: LZzAJu9rZEWzALxDhAHnWLRvybVAVgwTh3
> Bitcoin: 15s3aLVsxm8EuQvT8gUDw3RWqvuY9hPGUU
>
>
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-- 
-- 
James P. Kinney III
*
*Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you gain
at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own tail.
It won't fatten the dog.
- Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain
*
http://electjimkinney.org
http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/
*
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