[ale] OT CFL cleanup / LED light bulbs starting to become affordable

[Jay Lozier]

Hi,

The global warming press was based on the results of computer models that  
had very limited data - maybe 250 years of measurements. The problem is  
paleoclimates have both been warmer and colder than now. I forget when  
there was no Artic ice cap; it was something like 20 million years ago.

There is some work being done on thorium and thorium/metal oxide reactors.  
They appear to solve (or severely reduce) many of the problems of the  
conventional nuclear fuel cycle. Also, the three major nuclear power  
accidents were very different from each other. 3-mile island was caused by  
a valve failure causing a loss of coolant. The damage was basically  
contained to the reactor building. The fix was improved training,  
monitoring, and backup systems. Chernobyl was caused by incompetence and  
even worse reactor design. The Chernobyl reactors could not be licensed in  
Western countries - it was that bad. The design was a graphite moderate,  
water cooled reactor that was prone to runaway thermal problems if there  
was a loss of coolant. It suffered from a steam explosion and fire that  
spewed nuclear material into the atmosphere. The Japanese failure was  
locating the backup generators were they could be flooded if levee was  
breached or overtopped. If the generators were high enough they accident  
was not likely to happen. Apparently no one envisioned the levees ever  
failing; shades of Katrina and New Orleans.

On Wed, 03 Jul 2013 13:54:12 -0400, Ron Frazier (ALE)  
<atllinuxenthinfo at techstarship.com> wrote:

> Theoretically, if we all use cfl's, there would be less mercury  
> emissions going into the environment from power plant emissions even if  
> the bulbs are never recycled.  I don't particularly like them either,  
> though, which is why I like the LED's.  I've read scientific documents  
> that indicate that global warming is probably not caused fundamentally  
> by humans.  So, I'm not worried about CO2.  Not to mention that humans  
> and animals emit CO2 by design, and every green plant on the planet  
> needs CO2 to thrive.  However, power plant emissions also cause CO, SO2,  
> NO2, and other nasty things if I'm remembering correctly.  Excessive  
> energy consumption depletes our supply of coal and natural gas, makes  
> the electric grid less reliable, makes us less energy independent, and  
> tempts us to build more nuclear plants.  On that last topic, even if the  
> plant can be run safely and is protected from natural disasters and  
> terrorists (debatable - 3 mile island, Chernobyl, Japan), the waste is  
> toxic f!
>  or 100 human generations.  So, I think that's a bad idea.  I think, and  
> have read evidence, that there are alternatives to nuclear remediation,  
> but none have become viable on a large scale.
>
> Thus, I really think conservation is a great idea.  As someone else in  
> the thread said, whether it's a great idea for that to be mandated and  
> for us to be required to spend $ millions collectively to upgrade our  
> equipment, is very controversial.  Can a CFL or LED light bulb save 4X  
> its cost in energy over it's lifetime?  Probably.  Am I currently  
> willing to buy 20 LED bulbs at $ 15 - $ 45 ea to save that energy over  
> the next 1 - 2 decades?  Don't think so.  Not yet, at least.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Ron
>
>
>
> Phil Turmel <philip at turmel.org> wrote:
>
>> On 07/03/2013 12:16 PM, Ron Frazier (ALE) wrote:
>>
>>> Has anyone else had experience with the new LED bulbs?
>>
>> I've been trying out a few here and there.  I like the Cree inserts for
>> recessed can lights (the low-profile contractor style) that I've found
>> at Home Depot.
>>
>> I've tried a few spotlight/floodlight units with OK results.  Only "OK"
>> because I didn't pay enough attention to color temperature and I have
>> some mismatches.
>>
>> I also tried a couple of the units intended to replace conventional 60W
>> bulbs--with the plastic diffuser--with poor results.  Fragile, run hot,
>> and generated significant RF interference.  Phillips brand, I believe.
>>
>> BTW, I hate CFLs.  The idea that those mercury-filled monstrosities are
>> more environmentally friendly than a tungsten filament is a
>> scam--designed to enrich General Electric and friends.  /rant
>>
>> Phil
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>
>
> --
>
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> Please excuse my potential brevity if I'm typing on the touch screen.
>
> (PS - If you email me and don't get a quick response, you might want to
> call on the phone.  I get about 300 emails per day from alternate energy
> mailing lists and such.  I don't always see new email messages very  
> quickly.)
>
> Ron Frazier
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-- 
Jay Lozier
jslozier at gmail.com