[ale] OT CFL cleanup / LED light bulbs starting to become affordable

Wed Jul 3 13:26:24 EDT 2013

+1 humor

The EPA's definition of "green" jobs and mine are very different. I prefer  
to focus on the entire process not just one aspect of the problem. Often  
"green" iniatives just shuffle the type of pollution problem and pollution  
sources around without really reducing the overall pollution.

For a variety of reasons I view all-electric cars as environmental  
pollution shuffling resulting no net gain. There may be a substitution of  
some heavy metal pollution in lieu of carbon dioxide. This may not be a  
wise trade-off. And the location of the carbon dioxide production has been  
moved from the tail pipe to the power plant.

On Wed, 03 Jul 2013 12:49:38 -0400, Richard Bronosky  
<richard at bronosky.com> wrote:

>
> But CFLs create "green jobs"!On Jul 3, 2013 12:43 PM, "Jay Lozier"  
> <jslozier at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> In a previous job I got very familiar with the EPA rules which lowered  
>> my already low >>opinion of the EPA. One problem is that the disposal  
>> of the CFL bulbs should be at a >>hazardous waste facility certified to  
>> handle mercury not at a non-hazardous sanitary >>landfill. Technically  
>> you could be charged with a federal felony if you improperly >>dispose  
>> a hazardous waste - I am not sure if there are any minimum quantity.
>>
>> While incandescent bulbs used more energy they were non-hazardous waste  
>> when they burnt >>out.
>>
>> Also, CFL can aggravate certain medical problems which incandescent  
>> bulbs never did.
>>
>> Often overlooked is the manufacturing process for CFL and LED bulbs may  
>> be more damaging >>to the environment than for incandescent bulbs even  
>> with the higher energy consumption.
>>
>> Jay
>>
>> On Wed, 03 Jul 2013 12:16:18 -0400, Ron Frazier (ALE)  
>> >><atllinuxenthinfo at techstarship.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> Just wanted to drop a note about some LED light bulbs I've seen  
>>> recently.  As you may >>>know, the manufacture of incandescent light  
>>> bulbs is being phased out.  The best >>>current alternative is the  
>>> compact fluorescent (CFL).  These work well, and use about >>>1/4 the  
>>> energy of an incandescent.  The problem is that they have toxic  
>>> mercury.  If >>>you break one, you have to take special steps to avoid  
>>> exposure to mercury or mercury >>>vapor.
>>>
>>> You can find info here:
>>>
>>> http://www2.epa.gov/cfl
>>>
>>> I had the (not) fun of experiencing the cleanup procedure the other  
>>> day.  I dropped >>>one of these and it shattered.  I put on vinyl  
>>> gloves and removed every fragment I >>>could find.  I then wiped the  
>>> carpet with a damp paper towel.  I then vacuumed, even >>>though the  
>>> epa would rather you not, since almost all the residue was gone and I  
>>> knew >>>there were shards of glass in the carpet.  I then threw the  
>>> vacuum bag away (it needed >>>it anyway).  Finally, I ran the whole  
>>> house attic fan to ventilate the house for 1/2 >>>hour.  They  
>>> recommend venting for several hours if practical.  What a pain.
>>>
>>> There are no really good alternatives.  However, LED light bulbs are  
>>> starting to >>>become affordable.  I saw an ad from newegg that said  
>>> they have 30W equivalent bulbs >>>in a 6 pack for about $ 5 ea.  Also,  
>>> I was surprised to find that there are some >>>interesting  
>>> alternatives now appearing at home depot and lowes.  Home depot has  
>>> two >>>products from CREE.  One is a 40W equivalent bulb for $ 10 and  
>>> a 60W equivalent for $ >>>15.  I'm waiting for affordable 100 W  
>>> equivalents, but they're still about $ 45.  So, >>>we're getting  
>>> there.  I moved to all CFL a couple of years ago.  I'm not quite ready  
>>> >>>to jump to LED yet, but maybe the prices will keep dropping.
>>>
>>> If you decide to buy some of these, there are at least three things  
>>> you need to >>>consider other than cost.  First is size.  Some of  
>>> these are longer and / or wider >>>than standard bulbs.  Second, are  
>>> they omnidirectional and do they cast shadows?  Some >>>bulbs have  
>>> part of the bulb structure obscuring the bulb and would cast shadows  
>>> in >>>certain areas.  Third, are they dimmable?  Dimmability is a big  
>>> advantage that >>>incandescents have that most fluorescents don't.   
>>> Some of the new LED's are dimmable. >>> But, look at the specs.  Some  
>>> of them require new advanced dimmers.  The CREE ones I >>>mentioned,  
>>> however, are dimmable with conventional old style dimmers.
>>>
>>> Also, the manufacturers like to play games with longevity ratings.   
>>> One will say 10 >>>years, another 20 years, etc.  This is useless.   
>>> You have to find how many hours per >>>day they're figuring.  Usually,  
>>> it's 3, sometimes 6, etc.  The Philips CFL's I just >>>bought are  
>>> rated at 11 years, at 3 hr / day.  (The bulbs in my living room and  
>>> work >>>area run much more than 3 hr / day.)  If you do the math, that  
>>> works out to 12,000 >>>hours.  The cheaper CFL's may be rated only for  
>>> 8,000 or 10,000 hours.  A LED should >>>last 20,000 hours or more.   
>>> There are 8760 hours / year, so if you're running a bulb >>>12 - 24  
>>> hours / day, expect lots fewer days out of it.
>>>
>>> Home depot will recycle CFL's for you.  Lowes might but I don't know.   
>>> I don't know of >>>any easy way to recycle bigger circular or straight  
>>> fluorescent tubes.  I wish I did, >>>as there are a few fixtures in my  
>>> house that use these.
>>>
>>> Has anyone else had experience with the new LED bulbs?
>>>
>>> Sincerely,
>>>
>>> Ron
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Sent from my Android Acer A500 tablet with bluetooth keyboard and K-9  
>>> Mail.
>>> Please excuse my potential brevity if I'm typing on the touch screen.
>>>
>>> (PS - If you email me and don't get a quick response, you might want to
>>> call on the phone.  I get about 300 emails per day from alternate  
>>> energy
>>> mailing lists and such.  I don't always see new email messages very  
>>> quickly.)
>>>
>>> Ron Frazier
>>> 770-205-9422 (O)   Leave a message.
>>> linuxdude AT techstarship.com
>>> Litecoin: LZzAJu9rZEWzALxDhAHnWLRvybVAVgwTh3
>>> Bitcoin: 15s3aLVsxm8EuQvT8gUDw3RWqvuY9hPGUU
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
>> --Jay Lozier
>> jslozier at gmail.com
>> _______________________________________________
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-- 
Jay Lozier
jslozier at gmail.com
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