[ale] what happens to vm if host reboots

[Phil Turmel]

Hi Ron,

On 02/16/2013 10:03 AM, Ron Frazier (ALE) wrote:
> Hi JD, Phil T, and Jim K, and others,
> 
> Thanks for the prior responses to this.  I thought I'd post a small 
> update.  For now, I've just disabled automatic patch installation for
> the PC in question.  Maybe later, I can figure out how to have the VM
> shut down properly before the host shuts down.  When I went back to
> the virtualbox control panel on the host pc after the forced reboot,
> the status said the VM had been aborted.  That didn't sound good. The
> VM rebooted OK and the virtual HDD seems OK.  But, I obviously want
> to avoid such aborts.
> 
> The questions of why run Windows, or run Windows in a VM on a Linux 
> host are valid questions.  In this group, I wouldn't expect anyone to
> be endorsing Windows, nor would I try to convince you to run it. 
> However, I thought I'd provide a bit of explanation of my scenario.

In any normal human environment, I'd let this go by.  But you are
addressing this to the Atlanta Linux *Enthusiasts* mailing list.
Pointed commentary to follow:

> I've been running Windows ever since it was invented.  Since long 
> before, in my opinion, Linux on the desktop had a viable gui and 
> maintenance and installation routine for the AVERAGE user.  Since 
> Ubuntu came about in 2006 or so, and particularly, more recently, 
> Linux on the desktop is much more viable for the average user.  I 
> consider myself above average in terms of technology.  However, I do
>  prefer a nice GUI and minimal hassle installing and maintaining a 
> system.  Modern Linux desktops are an acceptable replacement for 
> Windows in most cases.  However, I reference my recent thread when I
>  was complaining about lack of control over my experience I get on 
> things like Unity and Windows 8.

Your history with Windows is certainly not unique--I also have used
Windows since it was introduced, and have used MS-DOS since *before* the
IBM PC (Zenith beat IBM to market by a few months--I used MS-DOS 1.0 aka
Z-DOS on a Heath/Zenith Z-100).  Making claims like this has no bearing
on the merits of the case.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority

> The fact is, Windows 7 does 100% of what I want a PC to do, since 
> everything out there is designed to be compatible with it.  My Linux
>  situation is in flux, since I'm in the process of firing Ubuntu and
>  moving to Mint.  Yes, I know it's Ubuntu under the covers.  Anyway,
>  my experience with Ubuntu 11.04 and with the Mint Live DVD's 
> indicates that Linux does about 85% - 90% of what I want a PC to do.

But you admit below that security concerns are bothering you--so Windows
is *not* doing 100% of what you want.  You are separating "security"
from the tasks you are using the PC to accomplish.  In my opinion, if
the task isn't being conducted securely, it cannot be considered 100%
satisfactory.

> The main areas where Linux falls short are the devices I attach to 
> these PC's, which often, work only with Windows to have all of their
>  functionality.  Some require Windows to have any functionality.
> These include an automotive GPS, ebook reader, weather display
> device, and a scanner.  Also, the machines associated with and
> attached to my work table run through a vga usb kvm.  One machine,
> when running Linux, ALWAYS mis characterizes my 1920 x 1080 external
> monitor and limits my screen to 1024 x 768.  It drives me insane.
> 
> Anyway, Windows 7 works flawlessly in all these cases.

How is this any different from buying hardware/software packages for
Macs vs. Windows?  You purchased devices that proclaimed Windows support
without checking their specs or online fora for Linux support.  If you
buy hardware for a Mac, do you expect it to plug into a Windows PC?  (It
might, but you take your chances.)

There will always be products, services, and software that target only
one platform--but they are rarely unique in the market.  Nearly every
piece of Windows software I've ever used has an alternative in both
MacOS and Linux.  In many cases, the software alternatives are
file-compatible.

As for hardware drivers, I think Linux has far surpassed all other
platforms.  There are a few holdouts, like Nvidia, but the vast majority
of new devices in this world get linux support first--especially
anything from Intel with server applications.

> So, at this point, I still plan to run Windows as my primary system, 
> while dual booting Linux and / or running it in a VM for learning 
> purposes and experimentation or maintenance with things that Windows 
> cannot do.  I also don't have any licenses to install any other 
> copies of Windows.

If you have professional versions of Windows, you have the licenses.
Any bare-metal install of Win XP Pro or Win7 Pro may also be installed
in a VM on under any other OS, even without uninstalling the bare-metal
copy.  (So long as you can only run one copy of each license at any time.)

Anyways, I think you are crazy, and your arguments are strawmen or
otherwise unserious.

> I will say this, with all the exploits being revealed in Windows, 
> Adobe, Java, etc., I am becoming more motivated to try to move to a 
> Linux primary and Windows secondary environment.

Numerous exploits have been exposed in Windows since its earliest days.
You claim to have been running it since then, but you are only *now*
becoming concerned?  Either you aren't the above average technology
enthusiast you claim to be, or you have been rationalizing away your
concerns for years.  (I'm guessing the latter, since you seem to be
otherwise well informed.)

> However, in my case, it's not at all a simple task.  I use each of my
> computers for different purposes.

I too run a number of Windows-only software packages due to certain
industrial equipment I make my living from.  Some of that involves
custom hardware that only has Windows drivers.  Ever since USB
passthrough to VMs became stable some years ago, I haven't had to run
bare metal Windows for *anything*.  Before that, I dual booted on demand.

If you are serious about converting to Linux as your primary platform,
don't wait--do it now with a Windows VM.  Use host-shared folders for
your documents within the VM, so as you find suitable Linux apps, you
don't have to move anything.

If you wait, you'll keep making lame excuses.

Oh, and when the time comes to upgrade your hardware, and you need to
move your setup to another machine, you'll think you've died and gone to
heaven.  Moving a VM from one box to another is so trivial, it is the
only Turmel-approved way to migrate Windows.

HTH,

Phil

ps.  If you want to maintain some of Window's classic user interface,
while still getting lots of new UI goodies, try a KDE-based distro.  I
personally use KDE on gentoo, and I strongly recommend Kubuntu to
friends and family.