[ale] [OT] Liberties

[Jim Kinney]

I don't see that erosion of 2cnd amendment has occurred to any degree that
the others have.

No carry-able number of fully automatic weapons will match up against
Apache attack helicopters with rockets, tanks with the ability to drop a 10
story building at 5 miles and the nuclear weapon trump card is _still_ held
by the only government to ever use nuclear weapons against a civilian
population.

I, too, do not expect perfection of freedom. But it is a desired goal that
must be worked for and not abandoned just because it's hard. I don't see
freedom and security as being diametrically opposed either. In fact, i see
true freedom and true security as being a symbiotic relationship. It is
only through freedom that we will have security.


On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 10:51 AM, Ron Frazier (ALE) <
atllinuxenthinfo at techstarship.com> wrote:

> Hi Ed,
>
> Perhaps I didn't say that last part too well.  The ambiguity that I meant
> to bring up is in the level of falseness of the sense of security.
>
> So, I agree with Jim in that I don't want to give up any freedoms for a
> [totally] false sense of security.  But, I think the assumption that the
> sense of security is totally false, is a wrong assumption.  (Couldn't
> figure a better way to word that.)
>
> Would I give up some freedoms in exchange for some REAL sense of security?
>  Yes, I would.  But the trick is where to draw the line.  We've probably
> already given up too much.
>
> Would I give up all my freedoms, and have all my actions watched,
> verified, officially permitted or not, and recorded, all the time,
> everywhere (assuming we even have a choice); in order to have perfect
> safety, perfect predictability, and perfect boredom?  No, I would not wish
> to do that.
>
> To be clear, the course we've gone down with nsa and such and all the
> freedoms that we have eroded, including the 2nd and 4th and 5th amendments,
> is a serious concern to me and I think we're going the wrong way.  We need
> to back up, get back to the constitution, and adapt our laws for the modern
> era.  I have posted messages here a couple of times endorsing the EFF.
>
> However, neither do I expect perfect unlimited freedom nor do I expect
> perfect unlimited safety.  Reality is somewhere in the middle.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Ron
>
>
>
> Edward Holcroft <eholcroft at mkainc.com> wrote:
>
> >"Your second statement is patently false.  Otherwise, we'd have no
> >laws."
> >
> >Conversely, one could argue that Jim's statement is patently true,
> >otherwise we'd have no crime. Both positions, I suspect, contain some
> >form
> >of logical fallacy.
> >
> >I'm also wondering Ron, what are those circumstances under which you'd
> >be
> >willing to surrender something (a civil liberty) in exchange for a
> >*false
> >sense of security* ("Your first statement is understandable, and I
> >could
> >even agree with it *to a point, depending on the circumstances*."), and
> >why
> >on earth would one ever be willing to do so?
> >
> >ed
> >
> >
>
> -snip-
>
>
>
> --
>
> Sent from my Android Acer A500 tablet with bluetooth keyboard and K-9 Mail.
> Please excuse my potential brevity if I'm typing on the touch screen.
>
> (PS - If you email me and don't get a quick response, you might want to
> call on the phone.  I get about 300 emails per day from alternate energy
> mailing lists and such.  I don't always see new email messages very
> quickly.)
>
> Ron Frazier
> 770-205-9422 (O)   Leave a message.
> linuxdude AT techstarship.com
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-- 
-- 
James P. Kinney III
*
*Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you gain
at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own tail.
It won't fatten the dog.
- Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain
*
http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/
*
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