[ale] flip flopping on programming, now interested in c++

Ed Cashin ecashin at noserose.net
Sun Jul 1 15:11:08 EDT 2012


Gee.  I hope nobody thinks I meant that knowing C++ function adapters will
get you a job.

On Sun, Jul 1, 2012 at 10:26 AM, Charles Shapiro <hooterpincher at gmail.com>wrote:

> +1 for Byron. I started coding in C on MS-DOS in 1982 or so, but I've
> lost count of the languages I've used since then on paid projects and
> ones for my own amusement. Some languages have been more fun than
> others, but I've found that focusing on the problem you want to solve
> is more productive than worrying about your tools.
>
> Real-world projects and books like Kernighan & Pike's
> _The_Practice_of_Programming_ are far more useful than classes in
> specific technologies for starting out.  You can always pick up
> another language as needed.
>
> Getting work involves slipping past the HR department, not your
> specific technical skills.  The biggest challenge in most shops is
> navigating the local culture and coding practice; experience with
> actual projects will help you there. So, for example, knowing the ins
> and outs of SubVersion and Git will help a lot more in a real-world
> environment than detailed knowledge of  C++ function adapters.
>
> -- CHS
>
>
> On Sun, Jul 1, 2012 at 8:20 AM, Byron Jeff <byronjeff at mail.clayton.edu>
> wrote:
> > Ron,
> >
> > I going to be blunt: you are overthinking this. First off programming is
> > like riding a bike: once you learn how to do it, it is difficult to
> > unlearn. The second thing is that programming languages are like flavors
> of
> > ice cream: while they all taste a bit different, in the end it's still
> ice
> > cream. Third is that unfortunately when it comes to the programming job
> > market, HR folks really are clueless. You can guess how many job ads out
> > there ask for 10+ years of Android programming experience when (DUH!) the
> > platform isn't been around for that long.
> >
> > At then end of the day being a programmer only comes down to two or three
> > core skills:
> >
> > 1. Do you know how to solve problems.
> > 2. Can you describe in a programming language (non specific) how to tell
> a
> > computer to solve that same problem.
> > 3. When given a program and a specified system, can you make an
> appropriate
> > choice of tool to solve the problem.
> >
> > The third one is the difficult one, because folks often make up their
> mind
> > what the tool is going to be before they even make an attempt to solve
> the
> > problem. One of my colleagues call it "love what you learn" syndrome.
> When
> > one learns to use a hammer, everything looks like a nail. But a good
> > craftsman knows there's a better tool when you are dealing with a screw.
> >
> > As you can see from the signature below, I'm firmly implanted in the
> formal
> > educational system you ascribe to participate in for this process. Trust
> > me, from you description below, doing that will most likely frustrate you
> > because you'll be in a classroom full of students who don't have the
> > slightest idea of what they are doing. Since that class will be starting
> at
> > ground zero, the projects will be small and simplistic. As you've already
> > figured out, all the resources you need to support what you want to do
> are
> > already available to you online.
> >
> > So let me give you some homework, then you tell me what you think when
> you
> > get it done. Pick three projects that you would personally like to have.
> > Three projects that would be useful for you. Write them. Use a different
> > programming language and development environment for each. Trust me, when
> > you are done, you will have relearned programming, and understand what
> > choices of tools must be made to accomplish the task. And you'll have a
> > portfolio of projects that you can passionately describe to anyone who
> > wants to know about your experience.
> >
> > Don't overthink it. If you want to be a programmer, then go program...
> >
> > BAJ
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Jun 30, 2012 at 05:55:16PM -0400, Ron Frazier (ALE) wrote:
> >>
> >>    Hi all,
> >>    Some of you that have read my posts in the past probably know that
> I've been
> >>    threatening to relearn programming after being out of it for many
> years.
> >>    I've also been waffling on the language of choice. I was really
> close to
> >>    carrying out my threat to learn something, and was about to focus on
> Java,
> >>    and even register for some classes. I realized a few things that
> prompted me
> >>    to shift again.
> >>    The two primary things I like about Java are the fact that it's what
> is used
> >>    to program Android, although it may be somewhat nonstandard, and
> that it has
> >>    built in memory management. The main things I don't like about it
> are the
> >>    requirement to use the Java interpreter (JVM) and the difficulty (if
> it's
> >>    even possible) of creating an executable file.
> >>    I began to realize that the use cases for Java, are something I
> don't want
> >>    to make my career on. I've observed three main uses.
> >>    A) Website design and programming. As a programmer, I would have to
> worry
> >>    about compatibility with 4-8 major browsers and probably 4-8 old
> versions of
> >>    each. Combine that with security risks like SQL injection, and
> people like
> >>    me  who  don't  allow scripting on their browsers at all for sites
> not
> >>    specifically trusted, and I realized that I don't want to be dealing
> with
> >>    this hassle.
> >>    B) In the past, a popular use for Java was desktop applications,
> downloaded
> >>    and not driven from a website. I think this is greatly diminishing,
> as many
> >>    people such as myself, are considering uninstalling Java altogether
> because
> >>    of security risks. Career wise, I don't think this has great promise.
> >>    C) The third use for Java is Android programming. This, I would
> potentially
> >>    be interested in. However, I don't know how much of a profitable
> career path
> >>    that would be.
> >>    I'm shifting my focus back to C++. Based on my reading, I don't like
> some of
> >>    the features of C++. In particular, I don't like the numerous
> documented
> >>    bear traps that the programmer can fall into regarding pointers and
> memory
> >>    management. However, I do like the types of things that C++ is being
> used
> >>    for. Almost all these are something I would be interested in doing.
> I really
> >>    want to be able to program machines, like robots, solar energy
> control
> >>    systems, industrial controls, building automation, etc. Things like
> game
> >>    programming could also be appealing.
> >>    So, when it actually comes down to paying for education and taking
> classes,
> >>    I  think  I'll  be  taking  some C++ classes next year after getting
> a
> >>    prerequisite course out of the way. I'm wondering if anyone can
> recommend
> >>    other resources that would help me. I'm thinking I'll use the G++
> compiler.
> >>    I think it runs either in Linux or Windows but I would have to
> confirm that.
> >>    I'll probably use GVim for my initial editor. I'm looking for a
> middle of
> >>    the road IDE, similar to what NetBeans would do for Java. I've
> pretty much
> >>    concluded that Eclipse is too complicated for me to try to be
> learning at
> >>    the same time I'm learning the programming language. If anyone has
> any
> >>    suggestions for resources, IDE's, user groups, online groups, etc.,
> I'd
> >>    appreciate knowing about them. I always prefer things that can run
> on either
> >>    Linux or Windows (up to Win7). I doubt I'll ever own a Mac, unless I
> have
> >>    money to burn and need it for some reason, and I doubt I'll be
> upgrading to
> >>    Windows 8 and the "Metro" interface.
> >>    I've already picked up the book Sams Teach Yourself C++ in 1 Hour
> per Day,
> >>    and  plan  to be working through that prior to getting into the
> formal
> >>    classroom. I'd prefer any resources I use to be compatible with the
> C++11
> >>    standard that was approved last year.
> >>    Thanks in advance for any assistance.
> >>    Sincerely,
> >>    Ron
> >>    --
> >>    Sent from my Android Acer A500 tablet with bluetooth keyboard and
> K-9 Mail.
> >>    Please excuse my potential brevity.
> >>    (To whom it may concern. My email address has changed. Replying to
> former
> >>    messages prior to 03/31/12 with my personal address will go to the
> wrong
> >>    address. Please send all personal correspondence to the new address.)
> >>    (PS - If you email me and don't get a quick response, you might want
> to
> >>    call on the phone. I get about 300 emails per day from alternate
> energy
> >>    mailing lists and such. I don't always see new email messages very
> quickly.)
> >>    Ron Frazier
> >>    770-205-9422 (O) Leave a message.
> >>    linuxdude AT [1]techstarship.com
> >>
> >> References
> >>
> >>    1. http://techstarship.com/
> >
> >> _______________________________________________
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> >> Ale at ale.org
> >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
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> >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo
> >
> >
> > --
> > Byron A. Jeff
> > Department Chair: IT/CS/CNET
> > College of Information and Mathematical Sciences
> > Clayton State University
> > http://cims.clayton.edu/bjeff
> > _______________________________________________
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> > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
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> > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo
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-- 
  Ed Cashin <ecashin at noserose.net>
  http://noserose.net/e/
  http://www.coraid.com/
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