[ale] Linux alternative recommendation ?

Courtney Thomas courtneycthomas at bellsouth.net
Mon Oct 24 14:57:41 EDT 2011


Thanks much Greg for much valuable information as I profess little more 
than an ability to locate the return key  :-)

C.Thomas

On 10/24/2011 1:21 PM, Greg Clifton wrote:
> Courtney,
>
> Regarding booting from CD (live CD) forgetaboutit. As previously 
> mentioned, it will be slow to boot and execute and you will have no 
> swap or permanent storage (no suspend to disc). Further, a lost, 
> broken or scratched disc would stop you dead. Much better to run from 
> tumb drive or external 2.5" drive if you prefer. Depending on the age 
> your notebook it should have USB 2.0 but if older, my be USB 1.0. If 
> you have USB 1.0, little will be gained by either a SSD or the Seagate 
> Hybrid drive previously mentioned because you will be I/O bound by the 
> bottleneck of the 1.0 USB bandwidth. Even with USB 2.0, I'm not sure 
> you would gain much from a SSD over USB. You can buy nice 500GB to 1TB 
> external 2.5" drives for $100 or less these days and that will give 
> you plenty of room to play with various distros, etc. Furthermore, 
> 2.5" drives are inherently more robust than 3.5" drives (smaller 
> platters flutter less). If you should choose the route of "rolling 
> your own" with an enclosure which you install your own drive into, get 
> one of the G-Shock type drives so that it will auto park if the drive 
> happens to get knocked off the desktop while in operation. You might 
> recall that IBM had a great commercial touting that technology a few 
> years ago before they sold their notebook business to Lenovo.
> Regards,
> Greg Clifton
>
> On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 11:44 AM, Courtney Thomas 
> <courtneycthomas at bellsouth.net <mailto:courtneycthomas at bellsouth.net>> 
> wrote:
>
>     Ron,
>
>     Thanks for the extensive replies.
>
>     What would be the downside of using live CDs for various OSes and an
>     external HD for data ?
>
>     Appreciatively,
>
>     Courtney
>
>     On 10/24/2011 10:53 AM, Ron Frazier wrote:
>     > Courtney,
>     >
>     > Here's my opinion of the pros and cons of HDD versus Flash (memory
>     > stick).  I don't know anything about (old style) ZIP drives, but
>     I think
>     > they're pretty much obsolete.  I'm not sure if that's what you
>     meant.
>     >
>     > HDD Pros:
>     >
>     >             lots of storage
>     >             cheap price
>     >             could possibly convert to using the drive internally
>     in the
>     > laptop
>     >             could use the drive later to backup your PC
>     >             more likely to be able to dual boot / multi boot
>     >
>     > HDD Cons:
>     >
>     >             subject to mechanical damage (don't smack or drop it)
>     >             usually requires 2 USB ports
>     >             heavier
>     >             more bulky
>     >             requires more power (reduces battery run time)
>     >             slower (caveat - as mentioned in my other post, the
>     USB speed
>     > may be the limiting factor)
>     >
>     > Flash (memory stick) Pros:
>     >
>     >             small
>     >             light
>     >             requires only one USB port
>     >             draws less power (increases battery run time)
>     >             does not require an enclosure
>     >             faster (subject to limits of USB speed)
>     >
>     > Flash (memory stick) Cons:
>     >
>     >             less storage space
>     >             more money per GB
>     >             harder to dual boot / multi boot (because of smaller
>     storage
>     > capacity)
>     >             easier to lose or misplace
>     >             long term longevity is questionable (in my opinion)
>     >             subject to electronic damage (static)
>     >                  (Have you ever walked across a carpet in the
>     winter,
>     > touched a doorknob, and gotten a spark on your finger?)
>     >                  (If you ever do something that sparks to the memory
>     > stick, even if you don't know it, it will probably destroy it.)
>     >                  (I would say the memory stick is less likely to
>     incur
>     > damage while traveling than the HDD.)
>     >
>     >
>     > Regarding CD's, if you install your OS to the external HDD, you
>     can boot
>     > directly from it if your PC has the capability to boot from USB.
>      You
>     > don't need a CD.  Also, another option is to put multiple operating
>     > systems on your internal HDD.  This is what I do.  All my PC's
>     can dual
>     > boot between Linux and Windows.  You could potentially boot between
>     > multiple versions of Linux as well.
>     >
>     > Sincerely,
>     >
>     > Ron
>     >
>     >
>     > On 10/24/2011 3:40 AM, Courtney Thomas wrote:
>     >> Ron,
>     >>
>     >> Thank you for all the important concerns unconsidered by me at this
>     >> point, but it sounds like... I might be better advised to use
>     live CD
>     >> distros with a portable HD (rather than zip drives) for
>     reliability and
>     >> space.
>     >>
>     >> If true, what am I giving up if going that route ?  Speed ?
>     >>
>     >> Gratefully,
>     >>
>     >> Courtney
>     >>
>     >> On 10/23/2011 12:37 PM, Ron Frazier wrote:
>     >>
>     >>> Courtney,
>     >>>
>     >>> What I'm discussing relates to using a memory stick for your
>     purpose.
>     >>> Most of it won't apply if using a HDD for storage.  I will
>     freely admit
>     >>> to not being an expert in booting from a flash memory stick.
>      However,
>     >>> here are some things to think about.  You probably want a high
>     speed
>     >>> memory stick.  They have different class numbers.  Higher is
>     better, and
>     >>> they don't always say on the label.  I don't have the numbers
>     >>> memorized.  Get something of high quality.  Pony up a few
>     extra dollars
>     >>> for something with a 5 year warranty, rather than a 1 year.
>      (That would
>     >>> apply to a HDD too.)  The device should have built in wear
>     leveling, and
>     >>> should have SLC memory circuits which have greater longevity.
>      This is
>     >>> also not usually on the label.  Flash memory cells can only be
>     written a
>     >>> certain number of times before they degrade.  When I was
>     teaching at a
>     >>> technical college, I always told the students not to rely on a
>     memory
>     >>> stick for permanent storage.  They can flake out sometimes.
>      The other
>     >>> thread I had posted about my relative wanting to recover
>     photos is an
>     >>> example.  Obviously, storing an OS on the thing is a more
>     permanent
>     >>> application, and you don't want any bits suddenly going
>     missing.  I
>     >>> would back up the entire memory stick from one to another
>     periodically,
>     >>> which would get the OS as well as all your data.  (This also
>     would apply
>     >>> to a HDD.)
>     >>>
>     >>> Here are a few items the Linux gurus here (I'm not one) may
>     wish to
>     >>> address.  You may not want a swap partition or file, since a
>     swap area
>     >>> will pound the memory stick very hard if the system get's low on
>     >>> resources.  There are pros and cons either way.  Without swap,
>     if you
>     >>> boot a PC with low RAM, and run too many things, the OS may crash.
>     >>> Also, you may wish to disable write caching to reduce the
>     likelihood of
>     >>> damaging the OS if the memory stick is removed without safely
>     ejecting
>     >>> it.  The USB port may automatically disable write caching, I
>     don't know
>     >>> about that.
>     >>>
>     >>> In the past, I've heard of people running Linux on a memory
>     stick and
>     >>> burning out the stick within a few months.  That was a while
>     back, so
>     >>> I'm not sure how the modern technology affects these issues.
>      Makers of
>     >>> memory sticks, and SSD's, now say cell wear is not a problem.
>      That may
>     >>> or may not be true, but I'm not totally convinced.  While I
>     would like
>     >>> to have an SSD, I'm not yet convinced that they can last 5 -
>     15 years,
>     >>> the way a properly maintained and not mechanically damaged HDD
>     can.
>     >>>
>     >>> Sincerely,
>     >>>
>     >>> Ron
>     >>>
>     >>> On 10/23/2011 11:42 AM, D. Marshall Lemcoe Jr. wrote:
>     >>>
>     >>>> There are some very fine 32GB and 64GB in the sub-$100 price
>     range and
>     >>>> anything will suit a live-key. if you're going to be
>     traveling, the
>     >>>> USB flash drive will be your better bet because there is no
>     chance of
>     >>>> it breaking like a regular HDD might.
>     >>>>
>     >>>> As for the distribution, I would recommend something that
>     doesn't take
>     >>>> a lot of setup and configuration to use, like Ubuntu or Fedora.
>     >>>>
>     >>>> On Sun, Oct 23, 2011 at 10:17 AM, Jim
>     Kinney<jim.kinney at gmail.com <mailto:jim.kinney at gmail.com>>     wrote:
>     >>>>
>     >>>>
>     >>>>> With the cost of removable media what it is, it's feasable
>     to have several
>     >>>>> distros on a 250GB drive all sharing a /home and selectable
>     at boot from
>     >>>>> grub.
>     >>>>> Or carry a selection of live CD/DVD media and a thumb drive
>     for storage.
>     >>>>> This is easier unless the laptop has no cd drive. Older
>     laptops may not be
>     >>>>> able to boot from usb.
>     >>>>>
>     >>>>> On Oct 23, 2011 9:41 AM, "Richard
>     Faulkner"<rfaulkner at 34thprs.org <mailto:rfaulkner at 34thprs.org>>  
>       wrote:
>     >>>>>
>     >>>>>
>     >>>>>> What is the most important feature of the OS?  Security?
>      Media support?
>     >>>>>> Something basic or something w/everything not nailed down?
>     >>>>>>
>     >>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>     >>>>>> From: Richard Bronosky<Richard at Bronosky.com>
>     >>>>>> Reply-to: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts<ale at ale.org
>     <mailto:ale at ale.org>>
>     >>>>>> To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts<ale at ale.org <mailto:ale at ale.org>>
>     >>>>>> Subject: Re: [ale] Linux alternative recommendation ?
>     >>>>>> Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2011 09:02:53 -0400
>     >>>>>>
>     >>>>>>
>     >>>>>>
>     >>>>>> How much storage do you need? Could a flash drive work? 32G
>     or 64G?
>     >>>>>>
>     >>>>>> On Oct 23, 2011 8:27 AM, "Courtney
>     Thomas"<courtneycthomas at bellsouth.net
>     <mailto:courtneycthomas at bellsouth.net>>
>     >>>>>> wrote:
>     >>>>>>
>     >>>>>> I'd like to carry a portable Linux USB HD installation for
>     traveling
>     >>>>>> with my laptop and would appreciate suggestions, not only
>     for which
>     >>>>>> Linux flavor but also which drive.
>     >>>>>>
>     >>>>>> Thanks,
>     >>>>>> C.Thomas
>     >>>>>>
>     >>>>>>
>     >
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