[ale] just installed LibreOffice in Linux, should have been easier

[Don Lachlan]

On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 10:18 PM, Ron Frazier
<atllinuxenthinfo at c3energy.com> wrote:
> I went to the software center in hopes that I could remove just one
> thing the way I did in the Windows control panel.  I found 5 or 6
> things, and proceeded to remove them.  I was hoping I was done, but went
> to Synaptic to find out.  I found still more openoffice entries, and
> removed them.  Searching for openoffice in Synaptic initially led to a
> large number of search results, and it would have been difficult to
> highlight them all and select them for removal.  Also, it's difficult to
> know if they should be removed, depending on how they are titled.

Ubuntu uses periodic forks from Debian for its releases. GNU/Linux in
general, and Debian (and its forks) especially, split software into
very small component pieces. Where a software package on Windows would
be a single entry, Ubuntu may list dozens; for a large application
like OpenOffice, there is usually a virtual package which depends upon
the dozens of component pieces - tell the system to install or
uninstall that one package, everything else goes with it. For other
large applications, there will be a primary package which holds the
core and depends upon other components.

I'm not very familiar with Ubuntu's Software Center (I had to look it
up), but it seems to be another front end to APT (and thus dpkg) that
presents a very limited view of major applications. Maybe it was
listing those virtual packages, maybe it keeps its own map of packages
to uber-package. Don't know, so let's talk about Synaptic.

Search in Synaptic (or using aptitude or apt-get) and you will find
all the OpenOffice primary packages, dependencies and optional
packages, but also packages for other software which are specifically
designed to interact with OpenOffice. It may seem cluttered now, but
it's just different - give it some time and you'll be able to pick out
the virtual package or primary package that everything else depends
upon.

>> http://www.ubuntugeek.com/libreoffice-gets-3-3-0-stable-version-released-ppa-installation-instructions-included.html
> I wish I had known this at first.  I just went to libreoffice.org and
> went to their download page and followed their instructions.  There was
> no mention of this process whatsoever.  I didn't see any need to search
> outside of the project's own site.

> I don't really understand the difference between a repository and a
> package.  However, I don't think point and click and go installs for the
> top 5 Linux systems, with integration to that system's package manager,
> is too much to ask.

The package is the .deb or .rpm file; the repository is a location
where packages are stored and fetched by applications like APT or yum.
Your system likely uses multiple repositories, for regular updates,
security updates, backports, etc.  Sometimes, vendors offer their
packages via repository, though this is less common. The reason for
this is It's A Lot Of Work. Even building packages is a significant
investment.

I don't know if the PPA is by LibreOffice or if it is a separate
person/group who was trying to offer the service, but I suspect it's a
separate group and so the LibreOffice web site would not list it.


> I did use dpkg, as described in the installation instructions.  However,
> I can find no evidence that LibreOffice is installed on my system,
> either in Synaptic, nor in Software Center.  I even tried the first two
> commands in the link you sent, to add the PPA and update the database.
> Still nothing.  At this point, I'd like to get rid of the original
> install, if possible.  and reinstall using the procedure you linked to.
> I don't know how to do that.  I could just activate the new procedure
> using APT, but then I might have two duplicate, possibly conflicting
> installs of LibreOffice.  Help!?

I saw your update. Going back to packages and repositories, after you
add the repository, you need to install the packages from that
repository. Regarding the machine you already installed packages on,
you can likely add the PPA and it will update properly when a new
update comes out. If the packages from the LibreOffice web site are
the same as what's in the PPA (or at least similar revision numbers),
your system will see a new version in the PPA as a regular update.

> I don't have a big problem with tarballs, kind of like a zip file.
> However, I think I should be able to extract it, click on the result,
> and the application should install and hook into the package manager for
> auto updates and easy uninstalls.

My daughter wants a pony for her birthday, that doesn't mean it's realistic.

Yes, I can come up with solutions which meet your requirements;
however, it's impractical when you're accommodating dozens of
distributions, architectures, versions, etc. for THOUSANDS of software
projects.

> As I mentioned above, it's very hard to install or uninstall something
> like LibreOffice or Java, for example, from Synaptic.  Doing a search
> will yield many lines and you don't know what to select.  Now, I
> wouldn't want to get rid of Synaptic, since it is very useful.  However,

First, it's not very hard, it's very hard for you. Your experience is
important, but that doesn't mean it's universal. You're walking into
this with certain prior experience and lacking certain experience - I
think if you had more positive experience with dpkg/APT/synaptic,
perhaps buying someone a beer so they'll give you a 15 minute
tutorial, it wouldn't seem hard at all. :)

> for something like this, I just want to go to software center, acquaint
> it with a provider's website, if needed, click LibreOffice, and click
> install, and have it all work.  If I want to uninstall it, I just want
> to click that one app name, and click uninstall.

I can appreciate that. However, I think your desire for that is
because that's what your accustomed to with Windows, because you find
it "better", not because it's objectively "better". It's also, to
bring up the issue again, A Lot Of Work - on a level that I don't
think you can appreciate. And it fragments the UI - "Why do I have to
go to Synaptic to upgrade Foobar when I can upgrade OpenOffice from
the Software Center? I want Foobar listed in the Software Center!"

*nix has a very different paradigm than Microsoft or Apple do, which I
would think is part of why we're here. I think this episode has shown
the OpenOffice->LibreOffice migration didn't have to be as much work
as you experienced, and rather than trying to force things to behave
as they do in Windows, you can find the method that is standard for
your distribution or environment.

I'm serious about the beer. Best training sessions I've given were at
a bar rail.

-Lachlan