[ale] SUSE package manager and install empathy

Tue Feb 15 13:53:30 EST 2011

On Tue, 2011-02-15 at 13:26 -0500, Lightner, Jeff wrote: 
> You state your OPINION that "deb just rocks" as if it were FACT.
> You're entitled to your OPINION but it doesn't match that of many of us
> who think rpm/yum is better.   In my case I know that is an OPINION and
> don't pretend it is a FACT as you seem to have done.
> 
> These discussions are purely religious - you might list dozens of
> reasons why you think deb tools are better and others might state dozens
> of reasons to the contrary but none of them changes anyone's opinion
> into a fact.

Talk about religious views.  What I said is fact.  Back in 2001 there
was NOTHING in redhat like apt-get except apt4rpm: Fact.  .deb and .rpm
are technically the same with the same capabilities with the same info:
Fact.  apt4rpm did rock at resolving rpm hell, but it did not work as
well as apt-get on a debian system:  Fact.  

Should I have said "apt-get/aptitude and synaptic just works?  So does
Yum:  Fact.  The backends are similar in design and info they contain.
dpkg and rpm both work:  Fact.  The front ends is what I was talking
about: Fact.  When apt-get and synaptic came out, there was nothing but
rpm hell (for me):Fact, but sujective.

I simply said I don't know why people (on the .rpm side) kept trying to
invent a front end when Debians worked so well.  That is fact, btw.  I
did NOT say today, yum is unusable or crap.  For what ever reason, .rpm
devs pushed forward with their own version of the wheel and made a
usable tool, also a fact.  I just don't know why when they could have
borrowed a wheel (and indeed as apt4rpm showed, some did), also another
fact. 

Point of fact.  .deb is NOT better then .rpm.  Dpkg is NOT better then
rpm.  Now front ends may be different, but it took a few years for RHEL
to catch up with the ease of use and versatility of
apt-get/aptitude/synaptic.  To this day yumex is "experimental". Yum is
slower then aptitude.  Yum shows less info then apt.  I have never had a
deb database that needed to be rebuilt.  Perhaps you have.  If you like
a rpm distro, use it.  But don't get all defensive because I said
aptitude is faster and shows more info and does not eat it's backend
database.  That is but ONE tool in a distro, and fwiw, Fedora makes a
good distro.

Did you notice I said portage was the best?  I don't see any .deb
fanboys blasting me for that.  I also don't use any portage based
system.  It is OK for me that they have a very good package management
system.

Lighten up.

> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of
> Damon L. Chesser
> Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 12:36 PM
> To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
> Subject: Re: [ale] SUSE package manager and install empathy
> 
> On Tue, 2011-02-15 at 08:49 -0500, Lightner, Jeff wrote: 
> > Not that it matters but I also prefer rpm/yum over the deb stuff.  I
> agree that rpm without yum can sometimes not be fun but there seems
> little reason not to use yum on rpm based distributions.
> > 
> > However, I can't see why anyone would base current opinion on ancient
> history.  Imagine if you decided never to buy a mobile phone because the
> one you had in 1990 was bigger than an army walkie-talkie or the one you
> had in the 80s required it to be hard wired into your car.   Technology
> evolves faster than people apparently.
> > 
> > NB:  RedHat 6 = Ancient version of RedHat (back in 2004 the oldest
> systems I inherited for Linux were running 7.3 or 9).
> > 
> > RedHat Enteprise Linux (a/k/a) RHEL is up to version 6.0 now and
> should not be confused with what was formerly called just RedHat 6.
> RHEL was already at version 3 in 2004 so back then was already 6
> releases beyond the old RedHat 6.
> > 
> 
> In the interest of full disclosure, I am a debhead from way back.
> Learned on Debian.  Technically speaking (which is the best way to
> speak) there is no difference between .deb and .rpm.  Both contains dep
> info and all that fun stuff.  The difference between the two systems is
> the front ends.  Apt-get/aptitude (cli, not that deslect cursors stuff)
> and synaptic just rock.  Yum is a poor version.  It is better then it
> was, but it is not as fast or versatile as aptitude.  It is pretty
> usable however.  The problem has always been the front end.  dpkg and
> rpm are vary comparable.  
> 
> I just always marveled at why the .rpm world kept trying to invent
> something when apt-get worked and worked very well, or portage (the only
> system I know that is *better*).  Hell, I got into debian because I was
> forced to use apt4rpm on my rh system because I could not get anything
> to install.  I figured if that worked so well, perhahps I should go find
> out where it came from.
> 
> On a different note:  I am almost persuaded to try out suse again and
> see if I can like Yast like I always wanted to.
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of
> Chuck Payne
> > Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 8:31 AM
> > To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
> > Subject: Re: [ale] SUSE package manager and install empathy
> > 
> > It's only change from the days of S.u.S.E as a company, and when
> > Novell bought it. When to the project start, it was set that the
> > spelling is openSUSE, so it hasn't change. It been that way since
> > openSUSE 10.0, and it won't.
> > 
> > Chuck Payne
> > openSUSE Ambassador/Member/Marketing Team
> > 
> > On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 8:19 AM, James Sumners
> <james.sumners at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Also, you can't change the way you spell your name every other
> release
> > > and expect people to keep it straight.
> > >
> > > On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 7:14 AM, Geoffrey Myers
> > > <lists at serioustechnology.com> wrote:
> > >> Chuck Payne wrote:
> > >>> For the recorder, if you refer to openSUSE, the correct spelling
> is
> > >>> with all lower case open and all upper case SUSE, the O is never
> Upper
> > >>> case, and the SUSE is always upper.
> > >>
> > >> For the record, I'm pretty sure that has just become the fact since
> > >> Novell purchased SuSE, as originally, it had always been SuSE,
> still
> > >> have the original disks to prove it.
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> Until later, Geoffrey
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > James Sumners
> > > http://james.roomfullofmirrors.com/
> > >
> > > "All governments suffer a recurring problem: Power attracts
> > > pathological personalities. It is not that power corrupts but that
> it
> > > is magnetic to the corruptible. Such people have a tendency to
> become
> > > drunk on violence, a condition to which they are quickly addicted."
> > >
> > > Missionaria Protectiva, Text QIV (decto)
> > > CH:D 59
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> > 
> > 
> > -- 
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-- 
Damon
damon at damtek.com