[ale] Kind words for Windows? - was The latest from Gigabyte

Tue Feb 8 09:57:21 EST 2011

Heh heh. Seconded.  I'm using winders for work and much of the time
even the doc reads like
a cookbook written in Chinese.

-- CHS

On Tue, Feb 8, 2011 at 9:38 AM, JD <jdp at algoloma.com> wrote:
> If you have a complaint about a specific program, you should file a bug
> with the development team using their bug tracking system.  Please start
> with Audible.com, Sansa and TomTom.  Ranting about it here in a
> non-focused way feels better, but does it really help?
>
> I find that patching 20+ Linux machines takes significantly less time
> than patching 3 MS-Windows machines. I use the shell, not some GUI.
> Perhaps you would be more efficient with at the shell too?
>
> Many of the other issues below seem to be self inflicted due to your
> background running MS-Windows. The philosophies of MS-Windows and *NIX
> are different, so the best ways to accomplish a particular task may be
> different too. Embrace the *NIX way and you'll see how to get 50-90%
> more useful work our of your computers.  It all starts with learning to
> love the shell interface.
>
> BTW, I'm constantly "self inflicting" pain on MS-Windows. It simply
> doesn't work the way I think it should. Inefficiencies all over the
> place, all that pointing and clicking in different places every time.
> Menus changing for no good reason to confuse me.  That is considered
> "more advanced" by some? No thanks.
>
> Lastly, put down that mouse. Place your index fingers on "f" and "j".
> Begin computing.  ;)
>
>
>
> On 02/08/2011 01:25 AM, Ron Frazier wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> The line I'm quoting from Chris Fowler (below) inspired this note. If
>> you're offended, blame me, not him. But, I hope no one will be offended,
>> just spurred to thought. But, lots of it is just some random things I've
>> been thinking about, and maybe ranting for frustration about some
>> problems I've been trying to solve. I'm not trying to start a flame war,
>> but, I've been using Windows ever since it was invented. Modern versions
>> of Windows are very slick, refined, functional, and, most of the time,
>> reliable. In some ways, particularly in terms of user interface, it's
>> more advanced than the Ubuntu I'm typing this on. In some cases, I can
>> do maintenance procedures on Windows MUCH easier than I can in Linux, as
>> I've detailed to some extent in other posts.
>>
>> I'm here, basically trying to use Linux 98% of the time, for 4 reasons.
>> They are, in no particular order:
>>
>> 1) Intellectual challenge. I love to learn new things, most of the time,
>> and maybe, there might be some usable job skills I'll gain.
>>
>> 2) Windows cost, for a new PC, this is only about $ 30 - $ 50. If you
>> want to buy a copy for a build your own pc or do an upgrade, it's more
>> expensive.
>>
>> 3) Maintenance issues. Tomorrow is the 2nd Tuesday, Microsoft patch day.
>> So, I need to update the Windows side of my dual boot computers as well
>> as family members' computers. Ubuntu is similar in the number of
>> patches. I'm getting flagged by the updater every few days, and
>> sometimes there are quite a few patches. Linux is able to update without
>> a reboot more often than Windows but it certainly is not always the
>> case. Probably 1 out of 3 or 4 patch cycles asks me for a reboot.
>>
>> The package manager in Ubuntu is what I think is a great advantage over
>> Windows. In Windows, I have to update (separately) the system, non MS AV
>> system, Java, Firefox, Firefox addons, Adobe Reader, Adobe Flash,
>> Itunes, and basically anything else that connects to the Internet. It's
>> great to know that everything I've installed using the package manager
>> in Ubuntu will be updated. However, this doesn't apply to things I've
>> installed separately. So, after I'm done updating Windows, I'll do a few
>> housekeeping things on Ubuntu (on 3 computers) including: force a system
>> update via the Updater tool, update the Firefox addons, check the
>> Firefox options configuration in case something got changed, check Flash
>> rev level and configuration, and check the Java rev level. The versions
>> of these in the Ubuntu repositories sometimes lag behind the
>> manufacturers' versions, but I don't want to override the install
>> manually since Synaptic may no longer handle the updates. Usually,
>> they're not too far behind though. There are a few apps which I couldn't
>> install from the repositories, and I may have to update them manually.
>>
>> Whether Windows or Linux, I try to do periodic disk integrity checks and
>> backups. With 3 dual boot PC's of my own, plus my Son's and Dad's
>> Windows machines, this all adds up to a lot of work.
>>
>> 4) Security! This is the big one. This is one of the main reasons I'm
>> now mostly a Linux user. There are just too many security risks with
>> Windows. Now, in fairness, if Linux had a billion users, and if the
>> hackers had a financial incentive to hack it, you'd see a lot more Linux
>> viruses. Yes, I know we can debate endlessly about which system is more
>> secure, and Linux certainly has it's merits. A well patched and
>> protected Windows system is one of the most secure platforms, akin (I
>> have read), to a condo in the city with bars on the windows (no pun
>> intended). Mac is like a normal house in a suburb, and Linux is like the
>> farmhouse 20 miles in the woods. Linux is safer, to some extent, because
>> it's not as big a target. However, no OS is immune to attack,
>> particularly if the user clicks on a malicious binary file as a result
>> of a phishing attack. A poorly patched or poorly configured Linux system
>> can certainly be vulnerable.
>>
>> But, nevertheless, the lack of security problems is one big reason I'm
>> running Linux. At the moment, I'm not running anti virus on Linux, but I
>> am running the firewall using Firestarter. At some time in the future, I
>> may find it necessary to run anti virus.
>>
>> Whether on Linux or Windows, I run the NoScript addon for Firefox, which
>> disallows all scripting except for sites I explicitly trust. I think
>> that's only prudent. Combine that with Xmarks, and you can save the
>> NoScript configuration in a bookmark and make it common across all your
>> computers, Windows and Linux. That works really well.
>>
>> -1) Here's NOT a reason I'm using Linux - ease of use. (This echos the
>> sentiment in a recent letter to the editor in Linux Journal.) Frankly,
>> most of the time it's similar to Windows, sometimes it's worse. I
>> wouldn't recommend it to my Dad, unless I was still around to do setup,
>> maintenance, and troubleshooting. Ubuntu 10.04, which I'm running, is
>> the first Linux I've tried which just worked on the hardware I have.
>> (Tried previous Ubuntu. Haven't tried other distros.) Even then, I had
>> to load some proprietary drivers, but I'm OK with that. On a day to day
>> basis, Gnome is fine, and it does what I need. However, there have been
>> a number of times, witnessed by my calls for help on this forum, when
>> Ubuntu has driven me up the wall and crazy trying to do some maintenance
>> procedure or configuration. At those times, I have to go scrounging
>> through Google, forums, man pages, config files, and command lines. Now,
>> I can edit config files and scrounge for info with the best if I have
>> to, and I've done plenty of that in Windows over the last 26 years. But,
>> I believe that should be a rare occurrence, not a frequent one.
>>
>> Here are some examples of comparative experiences with Windows and
>> Linux. In general, I want to keep my Windows installs and Linux installs
>> functionally equivalent. In every case, the experience was harder with
>> Linux, and in some cases, I have no solution. Now, my intent is not to
>> rag on Linux, but a lot of people like to rag on Windows. Both are
>> tools, they have pros and cons. These are just examples, and I'm sure
>> I'll ask for help in other posts, so that's not my purpose here.
>>
>> * Plugging external monitor into laptop screws up screen resolution and
>> scrambles my icons.
>> Windows - does just fine
>> Linux - problem exists, no solution yet - reads monitor capabilities wrong
>>
>> * Desire to have fine grained control over shutdown sequence on battery
>> power when battery is low.
>> Windows - built into OS, set up parameters in minutes via GUI
>> Linux - have to install UPS control daemon - options thus far seem very
>> non obvious - few GUI's to set them up
>>
>> * Desired to run all my email on the same system. Now using Eudora OSE.
>> Windows - setup was easy and quick - double click the EXE - found my old
>> email database (from Eudora Classic) and imported - (That WASN'T quick -
>> 12 hours.)
>> Linux - setup more difficult - required running a script to install -
>> not available in repository - didn't find old database and gave no
>> choice for manual selection - program must be run from a terminal window
>> (no Double click) - I had to figure out how to put a launcher icon on
>> the desktop (should be automatic) - terminal remains open all the time
>> for whatever reason
>>
>> * Desire to be able to clone my hard drive as a backup, then just
>> install it if the main HDD dies.
>> Windows - I have a nice, sophisticated, GUI based backup tool (not free)
>> - Acronis TrueImage - I have no problem paying for good quality software
>> if I have to. People deserve to be compensated for their work. Of
>> course, if people choose to put forth a good quality free tool, like
>> this email program, I'll use it.
>> Linux - haven't found a comparable Linux tool yet - used TrueImage to
>> clone the drive and install it for testing - Windows boots fine - Linux
>> fails to find it's swap partition - I resort to a swap file - GRUB
>> freaks out the next time it updates and demands that I tell it where to
>> put itself (I'll tell it - @#*&%*! Bang! Zoom!)
>>
>> * Desire to have my HotSpotVPN account active, so my public browsing at
>> hotspots is encrypted.
>> Windows - Relatively painless. Required running two install programs.
>> Boom. Up and running.
>> Linux - haven't succeeded or really even tried yet - read the procedure
>> once - gave me a headache - not automatic - many steps - have to run
>> from terminal
>>
>> * Possibly want to TrueCrypt the drive to make it look like gibberish to
>> thieves and nosy govt agencies.
>> Windows - I hear it's pretty easy.
>> Linux - don't even want to think about it, but I don't know what's involved.
>>
>> Oh, here are a few more. Some of these I may be able to run under Wine,
>> some not.
>>
>> * Audible books - Linux cannot do it
>> * Sansa Fuze+ MP3 Player - updater and media converter - Linux cannot do it
>> * TomTom GPS - updater - Linux cannot do it
>> * Evernote - online notes system - Linux cannot do it - OLD one works in
>> Wine
>> * MetaTrader 4 - currency trading software - Linux cannot do it - works
>> in Wine
>>
>> You get the idea. Now, I intend to stick with Linux, and I intend to get
>> these problems solved. Since I'm a geeky kind of guy, and I'm tenacious,
>> AND since I have lots of GREAT friends on this forum to run to for help,
>> I can probably get it done. However, the average Joe on the street won't
>> be so able or willing to work through these problems. He'll just use
>> what he knows works, and what he knows he can call several people for
>> help, and what's easy and available - Windows or Mac.
>>
>> So, I hope this hasn't offended anyone. I also hope that Windows and Mac
>> will draw on the strengths that Linux has AND I hope that Linux will
>> draw on the strengths that Windows and Mac have, and that all the
>> systems will improve. Of course, I'd like to see more people using open
>> source software.
>>
>> Ron
>>
>>
>> On 02/07/2011 10:21 PM, Chris Fowler wrote:
>>> You will not see much praise come out of my mouth for Windoze but I
>>> truly like that boot CD.  I sold a few PC's I cleaned out and used that
>>>
>
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