[ale] Ale Digest, Vol 34, Issue 99

Matthew simontek at gmail.com
Sun Nov 28 21:45:51 EST 2010


Ok I am in LA. Since tuesday we have had heavy packet loss. Name a
provider, its been affected. (I called around) I am currently seeing
75% packet loss. Anyone else experiencing issues?

I made note of it, and thought not much about it, but I am finding
that everyone seems to be affected by it, so I am intrigued what's
using that much bandwidth.

On 11/28/10, ale-request at ale.org <ale-request at ale.org> wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: Boot issues - OR - why Mafia$oft hurts/disappoints
>       everyone endlessly (Chris Fowler)
>    2. Re: tigerDirect (Greg Clifton)
>    3. Re: tigerDirect (Chris Fowler)
>    4. Re: Boot issues - OR - why Mafia$oft hurts/disappoints
>       everyone endlessly (Mike Harrison)
>    5. Re: Boot issues - OR - why Mafia$oft hurts/disappoints
>       everyone endlessly (Jan Gannon)
>    6. Re: Boot issues - OR - why Mafia$oft hurts/disappoints
>       everyone endlessly (Chris Fowler)
>    7. Re: Boot issues - OR - why Mafia$oft hurts/disappoints
>       everyone endlessly (Michael H. Warfield)
>    8. Re: Boot issues - OR - why Mafia$oft hurts/disappoints
>       everyone endlessly (Chris Fowler)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2010 19:08:29 -0500
> From: Chris Fowler <cfowler at outpostsentinel.com>
> Subject: Re: [ale] Boot issues - OR - why Mafia$oft hurts/disappoints
> 	everyone endlessly
> To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts <ale at ale.org>
> Message-ID: <1290989309.20990.32.camel at cfowler-desktop>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> On Sun, 2010-11-28 at 18:49 -0500, arxaaron wrote:
>>
>> This kind of insanity is why my mantra will forever remain
>> "I DON'T DO WINDOWS."
>> Mafia$oft computer environments are the biggest time sucking
>> black hole of human misery and frustration in the universe.
>>
>> If someone is too blind to see the source of all their problems
>> when it is repeatedly beating them over the head, then they
>> may be beyond helping.
>>
>>
>
> This is the main reason I don't try and convert people.  I run Linux and
> you run Windows.  That is fine.  You don't have to run my OS and I don't
> have to run yours.  I experience angst amongst those who try Linux and
> fail because they are so used to Windows.  It takes too much effort and
> energy to help them just to hear them complain about how Linux has
> failed them or unable to run some obscure software package they need.
>
> As people get older it gets harder for them to grasp new concepts.
> Eventually it makes no sense for them to switch.  It would be too much
> of a burden on them.
>
> Chris
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2010 19:16:18 -0500
> From: Greg Clifton <gccfof5 at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [ale] tigerDirect
> To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts <ale at ale.org>
> Message-ID:
> 	<AANLkTinGAmU_Q2Lgz2BKBCwHXy0xMUfotPFa1+H0vHiY at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Tiger Direct is probably the best known of the Systemax brands, but the
> company owns the Global companies (Computers, Office Supplies, Industrial
> Equipment), CompUSA, Circuit City and Infotel distributing. I am a bit
> surprised to hear that they are operating an actual store front, but I would
> suspect that it was a former CC or CompUSA store that they acquired in one
> of the acquisitions.
>
> GC
>
> On Sun, Nov 28, 2010 at 5:26 PM, Drifter <drifter at oppositelock.org> wrote:
>
>> Driving back from Winston Salem this morning, I came past a new
>> warehouse/retail outlet for TigerDirect at exit 137 on I-85.  I need two
>> sticks of memory to rebuild an old computer, but I was too early -- by 90
>> minutes. So I didn't wait.
>>
>> Sean
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Ale mailing list
>> Ale at ale.org
>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at
>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo
>>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2010 19:27:21 -0500
> From: Chris Fowler <cfowler at outpostsentinel.com>
> Subject: Re: [ale] tigerDirect
> To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts <ale at ale.org>
> Message-ID: <1290990441.20990.34.camel at cfowler-desktop>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> On Sun, 2010-11-28 at 19:16 -0500, Greg Clifton wrote:
>> Tiger Direct is probably the best known of the Systemax brands, but
>> the company owns the Global companies (Computers, Office Supplies,
>> Industrial Equipment), CompUSA, Circuit City and Infotel distributing.
>> I am a bit surprised to hear that they are operating an actual store
>> front, but I would suspect that it was a former CC or CompUSA store
>> that they acquired in one of the acquisitions.
>
> No.  That was never a CompUSA or CC.  The place is big and is more of a
> warehouse than a storefront.  My guess is that TD ships a lot fomr
> Jefferson, GA and decided this year to create a store front out of some
> warehouse space.
>
> I went today to help a friend pick out a router.  They had a good
> selection of new vs refurb.  They also had a great selection on hard
> drives and memory.  It is no Frys but it does have a great selection and
> some decent pricing.
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2010 19:43:33 -0500 (EST)
> From: Mike Harrison <cluon at geeklabs.com>
> Subject: Re: [ale] Boot issues - OR - why Mafia$oft hurts/disappoints
> 	everyone endlessly
> To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts <ale at ale.org>
> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.1011281929530.28130 at w0707.geeklabs.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
>
> On Sun, 28 Nov 2010, Chris Fowler wrote:
>> This is the main reason I don't try and convert people.
>
> It's why, dispite my personal interest levels,
> I usually don't talk much about:
>
>    - Linux
>    - FOSS
>    - Burning Man
>    - Alchemy (the Atlanta based "Regional Burn")
>    - Raves / Social Experiments
>    - Caving and Caving Events (see Raves)
>    - Alternative Music Festivals (LEAF is awesome!)
>    - Drum Circles (the kind people dance naked around the fire)
>    - Contra Dancing (see Rave/Gestalt/Group Euphoria)
>    - Welding / Machining
>    - Metal Sculture Art
>    - Fire Art / Poi (Fire Dancing)
>    - Religion
>    - Theology
>    - Really good Sex
>
> To anyone not already of the interest group mentioned
> or that I think is a viable candidate for being a major
> part of that interest group.
>
> The big issue is a establishing that common interest,
> setting the vocabulary and values, and then supporting it.
> It's hard.
>
> I'll throw something out, and if they catch it, I'll continue.
>
> For example:
>
> Them:  "My $!@! computer just got infected again!"
>
> Me:    "Stop using Winders".
>
> Them, Option 1:
>
>         "What are you using?"
>
> Them, Option 2:
>
>         "Them Apples are expensive"
>
> Them, Option 3:
>
>         "What else can you use?"
>
> I will toss some bait at Option 1. Might at option 2, and at Option 3 my
> answer might as well be: "The Aliens provided me a computer that runs on
> water..."  So I usually stop there.
>
> Experience has taught me to evaluate the person on sight, with only a few
> misses, so I often don't even toss out the bait.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2010 20:38:23 -0500
> From: Jan Gannon <jan at aditservices.com>
> Subject: Re: [ale] Boot issues - OR - why Mafia$oft hurts/disappoints
> 	everyone endlessly
> To: Mike Harrison <cluon at geeklabs.com>, Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
> 	<ale at ale.org>
> Cc: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts <ale at ale.org>
> Message-ID: <EE059D06-C1F4-4C06-A046-AC04FDCA3F24 at aditservices.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset=us-ascii
>
> Sounds like the first rule...
>
> Jan G.
>
>
> On Nov 28, 2010, at 7:43 PM, Mike Harrison <cluon at geeklabs.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 28 Nov 2010, Chris Fowler wrote:
>>> This is the main reason I don't try and convert people.
>>
>> It's why, dispite my personal interest levels,
>> I usually don't talk much about:
>>
>>   - Linux
>>   - FOSS
>>   - Burning Man
>>   - Alchemy (the Atlanta based "Regional Burn")
>>   - Raves / Social Experiments
>>   - Caving and Caving Events (see Raves)
>>   - Alternative Music Festivals (LEAF is awesome!)
>>   - Drum Circles (the kind people dance naked around the fire)
>>   - Contra Dancing (see Rave/Gestalt/Group Euphoria)
>>   - Welding / Machining
>>   - Metal Sculture Art
>>   - Fire Art / Poi (Fire Dancing)
>>   - Religion
>>   - Theology
>>   - Really good Sex
>>
>> To anyone not already of the interest group mentioned
>> or that I think is a viable candidate for being a major
>> part of that interest group.
>>
>> The big issue is a establishing that common interest,
>> setting the vocabulary and values, and then supporting it.
>> It's hard.
>>
>> I'll throw something out, and if they catch it, I'll continue.
>>
>> For example:
>>
>> Them:  "My $!@! computer just got infected again!"
>>
>> Me:    "Stop using Winders".
>>
>> Them, Option 1:
>>
>>        "What are you using?"
>>
>> Them, Option 2:
>>
>>        "Them Apples are expensive"
>>
>> Them, Option 3:
>>
>>        "What else can you use?"
>>
>> I will toss some bait at Option 1. Might at option 2, and at Option 3 my
>> answer might as well be: "The Aliens provided me a computer that runs on
>> water..."  So I usually stop there.
>>
>> Experience has taught me to evaluate the person on sight, with only a few
>> misses, so I often don't even toss out the bait.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Ale mailing list
>> Ale at ale.org
>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at
>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2010 20:53:04 -0500
> From: Chris Fowler <cfowler at outpostsentinel.com>
> Subject: Re: [ale] Boot issues - OR - why Mafia$oft hurts/disappoints
> 	everyone endlessly
> To: Mike Harrison <cluon at geeklabs.com>, Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
> 	<ale at ale.org>
> Message-ID: <1290995584.20990.40.camel at cfowler-desktop>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> On Sun, 2010-11-28 at 19:43 -0500, Mike Harrison wrote:
>> The big issue is a establishing that common interest,
>> setting the vocabulary and values, and then supporting it.
>> It's hard.
>
> A friend years ago said to me "How do you know so much about Linux?"
>
> Answer:  "Immersion".
>
> <flamebait>
> If you spend your days (at work) locked into Windows and don't do much
> at home then don't expect much progress.  I've been lucky that at a
> majority of my time working I've been exposed to and using some form of
> UNIX.  During the short period where I had to run Windows on my work
> machine my progress was severely limited!
>
> I hate to say it but Linux is like anything else in life.  If you want
> to learn it you must use it (often).  You can't spend 8 hours at work
> running Windows XP then come home and browse the Internet on Linux.  You
> have to _really_ use it!
>
> When your life becomes complicated with a wife and kids then your time
> is shortened and you need more than ever to use it where you can (at
> work).  Otherwise, it is over.....
> </flamebait>
>
> In those cases where I needed Windows to communicate (office crap), I
> ran Windows in a VMWare guest while doing everything else in Linux.
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2010 21:19:49 -0500
> From: "Michael H. Warfield" <mhw at WittsEnd.com>
> Subject: Re: [ale] Boot issues - OR - why Mafia$oft hurts/disappoints
> 	everyone endlessly
> To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts <ale at ale.org>
> Cc: mhw at WittsEnd.com
> Message-ID: <1290997190.19987.100.camel at canyon.wittsend.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> All right...
>
> Call to order.  Point of order.
>
> On Sun, 2010-11-28 at 18:49 -0500, arxaaron wrote:
>> It kills me when I consider the massive waste of man hours or
>> witness the endless frustrations and emotional angst generated
>> daily by Mafia$oft and all their incompetent and obstructive
>> Windisease products.
>
> Everyone please step back and stand down for a moment and take a deep
> breath.  I think very few on this list will argue that I'm not one of
> the best analysts and diagnosticians here.  And I certainly enjoy a
> bloody good damn rant as much as the next person, just ask our good
> friend, Todd Lewis, who stepped right in front of one of my nuclear
> tirades years ago in another forum and can testify to my qualifications
> there too.
>
> Aaron, we are just going to have to agree to disagree at this point.
> While I totally agree that this two drive configuration is probably a
> contributing factor here, it's not all of the story, at least not in my
> mind, not yet.  Did you (any of you) even bother to look at and read
> that screen shot she posted?  Something is not right there.  I know how
> that shit works and it did not work there.  It loaded a kernel and could
> not find the bloody root fs.  If it recognizes the drives and the
> partitions, it's going to find them.  This was not grub getting
> confused!  Grub loaded the bloody kernel and presumably (though that's
> one question in doubt) found and loaded the bloody initramfs.  That
> kernel was loaded and could not find the root fs.  I've seen this
> problem (though NOT in large TB+ SATA drives - only in smaller IDEs).
> I'm NOT CONVINCED.  I do not believe we have a definitive answer here
> about what the problem is and that makes the rant more than a little
> premature.
>
> And let me make this very clear.  I do NOT see my time spent on this to
> be a waste of my time, especially if it leads me to other understanding.
> There is something going on here that I don't quite understand (like why
> does and older Debian behave and the newer stuff lock up) and writing it
> off this way is simply premature.  There have been simply too many times
> things like this has let me down the path to a more fundamental problem.
> I was the one that uncovered some of the initrd problems when they took
> out some of the damn delays and waits to go asynchronous.
>
> And if the ultimate answer is not merely the two drive situation with
> Windows on the primary drive, I'd certainly hate to see you look like
> a .... well, like you were being judgmental and jumping to conclusions.
>
> This did not help.  At best, the OP will ignore you.  At worst, she'll
> walk off dejected thinking all Linux users are jerks or worse and I'll
> never know what the heart of her problem was.
>
> Everybody please hold the anti MS rants and rages until we can at least
> get a better idea of what the problem is or reserve it for one of the
> frequent anti MS tirades.  The time for ranting and raging on this issue
> is not YET ripe.  It may yes be justified, it's just premature in this
> case.  IN MY JUDGMENT.
>
> Regards,
> Mike
>
>> What did we have here? Some 20 messages and a dozen
>> diagnostic suggestions over 3 or 4 man hours of squandered
>> volunteer assistance because it was never made clear that there
>> were two drives in the problematic system and that the main
>> drive was an active windisease boot disk?  Even more galling
>> and insane is that the Mafia$oft victim in this case was blaming
>> their frustrations on the wrong entity entirely, and in the subject
>> line of their plea for help no less.
>>
>> This kind of insanity is why my mantra will forever remain
>> "I DON'T DO WINDOWS."
>> Mafia$oft computer environments are the biggest time sucking
>> black hole of human misery and frustration in the universe.
>>
>> If someone is too blind to see the source of all their problems
>> when it is repeatedly beating them over the head, then they
>> may be beyond helping.
>>
>> peace
>> aaron
>>
>> On 2010/11/28, at 11:33 , William Fragakis wrote:
>> > On Sun, 2010-11-28 at 10:52 -0500, Narahari 'n' Savitha wrote:
>> >> Can I force to use grub 1.x ?
>> >> Is there a real benefit to use grub 2.x ?
>> >>
>> >> Any one using Linux on a 1TB drive at all ?  I am beginning to doubt
>> >> Linux's ability to run on a 1TB drive.
>>
>> > Is the bios updated on your motherboard? Have you made any bios
>> > changes?
>> >
>> > I may have missed this in previous posts but which particular
>> > brand/model hard drive are you using?
>> >
>> > Linux can very well run/boot on a 1TB drive - I realize that you may
>> > be
>> > very well frustrated at this point but questions like that aren't
>> > probably very helpful or productive.
>> >
>> > William
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >>
>> >> -Narahari
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Ale mailing list
>> Ale at ale.org
>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at
>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo
>>
>
> --
> Michael H. Warfield (AI4NB) | (770) 985-6132 |  mhw at WittsEnd.com
>    /\/\|=mhw=|\/\/          | (678) 463-0932 |  http://www.wittsend.com/mhw/
>    NIC whois: MHW9          | An optimist believes we live in the best of
> all
>  PGP Key: 0x674627FF        | possible worlds.  A pessimist is sure of it!
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2010 21:32:14 -0500
> From: Chris Fowler <cfowler at outpostsentinel.com>
> Subject: Re: [ale] Boot issues - OR - why Mafia$oft hurts/disappoints
> 	everyone endlessly
> To: mhw at wittsend.com, Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts <ale at ale.org>
> Message-ID: <1290997934.20990.43.camel at cfowler-desktop>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> On Sun, 2010-11-28 at 21:19 -0500, Michael H. Warfield wrote:
>> Aaron, we are just going to have to agree to disagree at this point.
>> While I totally agree that this two drive configuration is probably a
>> contributing factor here, it's not all of the story, at least not in
>> my
>> mind, not yet.  Did you (any of you) even bother to look at and read
>> that screen shot she posted?  Something is not right there.  I know
>> how
>> that shit works and it did not work there.  It loaded a kernel and
>> could
>> not find the bloody root fs.  If it recognizes the drives and the
>> partitions, it's going to find them.  This was not grub getting
>> confused!  Grub loaded the bloody kernel and presumably (though that's
>> one question in doubt) found and loaded the bloody initramfs.  That
>> kernel was loaded and could not find the root fs.  I've seen this
>> problem (though NOT in large TB+ SATA drives - only in smaller IDEs).
>> I'm NOT CONVINCED.  I do not believe we have a definitive answer here
>> about what the problem is and that makes the rant more than a little
>> premature.
>
> I would boot up on a LiveCD and make sure Ubuntu could mount the
> partition.
>
> I would then modify the group entry to specify the root as hd1,0 instead
> of those darn UUID names :)
>
> If that does not work it may be possible that the initramfs does not
> have the proper driver loaded for the hardware.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>
>
> End of Ale Digest, Vol 34, Issue 99
> ***********************************
>

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