[ale] [rant] I dislike "we only support winblows/OS X" AT&T internet

Jeremy T. Bouse jeremy.bouse at undergrid.net
Mon Mar 3 17:09:20 EST 2008


Okay, so I'm not a lawyer nor do I play one on tv... but as I read that 
I read it to say that you're responsible for making your own backups and 
that AT&T is covering their own arses if their software blows away 
something you have on your system. Not a problem if I'm running Linux 
and not installing any software from them.

Ned Williams wrote:
> Actually doesn't section 3.2 of that very TOS cover this? They even 
> put it in all caps too :)
>
> Ned
>
>
> 3.2 _File Modification/Backup Requirements._ The Qualifications of 
> your computer's operating system, as well as the installation (whether 
> self-installed or AT&T -installed), use, inspection, maintenance, 
> repair, or removal of the Equipment and Software, may result in an 
> inadvertent service outage or reconfiguration of the software on your 
> computer, or temporary interruption of your telephone service. In 
> addition, as part of the installation process, system files on your 
> computer, such as, but not limited to, INI, BAT, SYS, and DLL files, 
> may be modified or deleted. AT&T does not represent or warrant that 
> such modifications or deletions will not disrupt the normal operations 
> of your computer. You acknowledge and agree that you are solely 
> responsible for backing up all existing computer files by copying them 
> to another storage medium prior to the installation of your Equipment 
> and the Software, and prior to any inspection, maintenance, repair, or 
> removal of your Equipment and the Software. AT&T DOES NOT REPRESENT OR 
> WARRANT THAT INSTALLATION BY YOU OR A THIRD PARTY CHOSEN BY YOU WILL 
> ENABLE YOU TO SUCCESSFULLY ACCESS OR USE THE SERVICES, NOR THAT ANY 
> SUCH INSTALLATION WILL NOT CAUSE DAMAGE OR MODIFICATIONS TO, OR LOSS 
> OF, ANY OF YOUR SOFTWARE, HARDWARE, FILES, DATA, OR PERIPHERALS. AT&T 
> AND OUR EMPLOYEES, AGENTS, CONTRACTORS, AND REPRESENTATIVES WILL HAVE 
> NO LIABILITY WHATSOEVER FOR ANY DAMAGES OR SERVICE PROBLEMS (INCLUDING 
> TELEPHONE SERVICE) RESULTING FROM YOUR, OR A THIRD PARTY'S, FAILURE TO 
> PROPERLY INSTALL, ACCESS, OR USE THE EQUIPMENT, SOFTWARE, OR SERVICES.
>
> On Mon, Mar 3, 2008 at 2:14 PM, Jeremy T. Bouse 
> <jeremy.bouse at undergrid.net <mailto:jeremy.bouse at undergrid.net>> wrote:
>
>     Actually have you checked out http://www.att.net/legal/tos cause those
>     specs you mention are no where within it nor is the explicit
>     mention of
>     Windows or Mac. Closest I can find is section 3. Equipment & Software
>     and all it really says is:
>
>        Due to the infinite number of possible combinations of hardware and
>        software, you are responsible for the compatibility of your system
>        with the Service. Any equipment that was not provided to you by
>     AT&T
>        is not the responsibility of AT&T , and AT&T will not provide
>        support and will not be responsible for ongoing maintenance or
>        management of such equipment. Any AT&T-provided modem will be
>     either
>        a new or a fully inspected, tested, and warranted return or
>        repackaged unit.
>
>     Which I can understand, I provide my own router/access point behind
>     their DSL modem I'm not asking them to support that router but I am
>     asking them to support their connectivity which they do provide
>     and thus
>     should support. Yes I've had their modems fail, I've also replaced my
>     separately purchased Sangoma S518 ADSL card with their provided
>     Speedstream to prove a problem was not my modem but the line as
>     the same
>     problem was occuring. If your call to tech support is network
>     connectivity reasons, which I know for me is the only time I do ever
>     call, then nothing in their TOS (so far as I can see) says support can
>     be withheld because of your operating system.
>     <http://www.att.net/legal/tos>
>     Ned Williams wrote:
>     > You miss my point.
>     >
>     > Regardless of what it takes to do a ping..you have their service you
>     > agreed to their terms of service, that TOS states they only support
>     > windows...that means you understood at the time of getting the
>     service
>     > that calling in because your Linux connected machine has a
>     problem is
>     > a lost cause. The effect of the operating system is not what is  up
>     > for debate, the effect of the contract the customer agrees too,
>     is. Is
>     > it a wrongly minded contract sure if your a Linux person, but
>     that is
>     > not of any consequence to AT&T. .If you don't like, don't be their
>     > customer. That is your greatest method to effect chance upon them.
>     >
>     >
>     > Ned
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > On Mon, Mar 3, 2008 at 1:32 PM, Jeremy T. Bouse
>     > <jeremy.bouse at undergrid.net <mailto:jeremy.bouse at undergrid.net>
>     <mailto:jeremy.bouse at undergrid.net
>     <mailto:jeremy.bouse at undergrid.net>>> wrote:
>     >
>     >     But again these specs you quote also fall back to the issue
>     of what
>     >     affect the Operating System has on OS-independent network
>     routing
>     >     issues. Those are really specs for software being installed not
>     >     what is
>     >     needed to provide a level of network service connectivity.
>     If they ask
>     >     you to do a ping does it really matter what OS you do it from?
>     >     Same for
>     >     traceroute, opening a web page, etc...
>     >
>     >     Ned Williams wrote:
>     >     > If you have 19 machines on a network, why don't you have a
>     >     switch and
>     >     > a router and not force a linux box to do the job of the
>     >     aforementioned
>     >     > 10 dollar router?
>     >     > Sorry I know there are people out there who insist on
>     demonstrating
>     >     > value in their stll creaking along  486/66 by making it
>     their dsl
>     >     > router/firewall...but I mean rather than get spitting mad
>     on the
>     >     phone
>     >     > with techs who you KNOW are not going to know squat about
>     linux nor
>     >     > are they required too...(a google of "AT&T system
>     requirements"
>     >     first
>     >     > hit spells out what they are required to support)
>     >     >
>     >     >     * Intel or equivalent Pentium Pro, II, III, or IV at
>     133MHz
>     >     or faster
>     >     >     * Windows 95/98/ME/XP or Windows NT 4.0/2000 (TCP/IP and
>     >     Ethernet
>     >     >       support must be enabled)
>     >     >     * RAM -
>     >     >           o Windows 95/98/XP - 32 MB
>     >     >           o Windows NT - 32 MB
>     >     >     * Hard drive with 100 megabytes available
>     >     >     * Ethernet Network Interface Card (NIC) or built-in
>     Ethernet
>     >     port
>     >     >       supporting 10 Base-T
>     >     >     * CD ROM
>     >     >     * Microsoft^® TCP/IP stack
>     >     >
>     >     >
>     >     > This means when you, you're gf, your mom,dad uncle or
>     whomever has
>     >     > their service all agreed to these terms when you got the
>     service..
>     >     >
>     >     > don't agree fine, get speak easy, they support Linux and
>     your blood
>     >     > pressure will be lower...but don't expect the AT&T's  Chennai
>     >     support
>     >     > center to understand the eccentricities of the  latest Debian
>     >     release,
>     >     > when their product list is limited to windows only..
>     >     >
>     >     > and hey if it helps..they don't support Vista either
>     >     >
>     >     > Ned
>     >     >
>     >     >
>     >     >
>     >     >
>     >     >
>     >     >
>     >     >
>     >     > On Mon, Mar 3, 2008 at 12:05 PM, Jeremy T. Bouse
>     >     > <jeremy.bouse at undergrid.net
>     <mailto:jeremy.bouse at undergrid.net>
>     <mailto:jeremy.bouse at undergrid.net
>     <mailto:jeremy.bouse at undergrid.net>>
>     >     <mailto:jeremy.bouse at undergrid.net
>     <mailto:jeremy.bouse at undergrid.net>
>     >     <mailto:jeremy.bouse at undergrid.net
>     <mailto:jeremy.bouse at undergrid.net>>>> wrote:
>     >     >
>     >     >        The other problem with being able to go with any one
>     >     other than the
>     >     >     telco is if you're like me, stuck behind a remote
>     DSLAM the
>     >     telco
>     >     >     won't
>     >     >     provide the resellers with the ability to service you.
>     Every DSL
>     >     >     provider claims they can't service my house but I have
>     the top
>     >     >     speed DSL
>     >     >     from AT&T. Luckily I don't have to call them for
>     support too
>     >     often
>     >     >     considering I've got a very non-standard configuration
>     in the
>     >     >     house that
>     >     >     would drive their script-readers nuts, along with myself
>     >     trying to
>     >     >     explain it to them.
>



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