[ale] Allow non-root user to chown file to other user?

[Jeff Lightner]

An opinion no matter how much YOU agree with it is still an opinion and
therefore isn't "technical".  That is my opinion.

As noted earlier I do not believe chown in and of itself is dangerous
and if it were that dangerous then the major UNIX variants I've worked
on would also prohibit it entirely rather than having a way to configure
it.   That is also my opinion.  

You are as free to disagree with my opinions as I am with yours.

Setting groups wouldn't solve the specific need I had.  The reason I did
NOT post my "purpose" as I've mentioned several times is I was looking
for a specific configuration tool and did NOT want to wade through the
opinions of others as to whether I should use such a tool if it existed.
As noted I'd already done quite a bit of research trying to find the
answer before posting so had already seen most of the comments others
had without ever actually answering the question.

I'm gathering that either such a tool does not exist for Linux or that
no one on the list actually knows about it so would rather argue with my
opinion on the subject.

I did NOT come to the list and say "hey I'm looking for a hammer that
can be used as a screwdriver" - My question was more like:  "Craftsman
makes tools and one of them is a ball peen hammer.   SnapOn makes tools
too and I'm constrained to use their tools so would like to see if they
make a ball peen hammer as well."  Telling me to use SnapOn's claw
hammer because only a moron would use a ball peen hammer doesn't really
answer the question I asked but rather gives me your opinion.   Since
I'd already seen enough comments indicating that there were people that
thought that I attempted to prevent those kind of comments.

-----Original Message-----
From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of
Michael H. Warfield
Sent: Friday, November 16, 2007 10:33 AM
To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
Cc: mhw at WittsEnd.com
Subject: RE: [ale] Allow non-root user to chown file to other user?

On Fri, 2007-11-16 at 08:49 -0500, Jeff Lightner wrote:
> I haven't seen any technical explanation as to "why" in any of the
> posts.

	Strange...  I thought I saw several comments on the technical
reasons
of why it is dangerous (quotas being one distinctive one).  That should
be sufficient.  The "technical" answer would be that people who
recognize it as being dangerous have prohibited it.  It use to be that
you could also, on many Unix system, have SUID scripts.  It was decided
to prohibit those as well, because of the danger.  People complaining
and asking "how do I create an SUID script" are in the same boat as you
are.  It's prohibited by design due to the inherent risks and there are
better, safer, ways to accomplish your goals.  That's the technical long
and short of it.

> I have seen OPINIONS like yours.  Is this discussed in an RFC
> somewhere?

	This isn't a protocol and it's not under the perusal of the
IETF, so
why would it be discussed in an RFC.

	But...  As long as you have brought up the topic of an RFC, the
IETF
now requires security assessments and statements of security impacts in
RFC's which it published.  For that reason alone, the security issues
mentioned by others as why it's a bad idea would be appropriate as
technical security issues in an RFC.  IOW...  You wouldn't be allowed it
under and RFC because it's insecure.

> ssh is an even more dangerous tool in the wrong hands...

	Point is, you don't need what you are asking.  There are other,
better,
safer, ways to accomplish your goal.

	Mike

> -----Original Message-----
> From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of
> James P. Kinney III
> Sent: Friday, November 16, 2007 8:11 AM
> To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
> Subject: RE: [ale] Allow non-root user to chown file to other user?
> 
> On Thu, 2007-11-15 at 14:44 -0500, Jeff Lightner wrote:
> 
> > Again I am asking if there is a way to allow non-root users to
simply
> > use the "real" chown command directly.  It just doesn't seem to me
> that
> > this shouldn't be something that is configurable somehow especially
> > given that it is configurable on at least two UNIX variants I'm
> familiar
> > with.     
> > 
> The short answer is no. The prior posts discuss why. chown is a
> dangerous tool in the wrong hands. 
> 
> Furthermore, a user can't chown a file to themselves. Again, it
violates
> the security of the system. 
> 
> All ways I've seen to workaround this are cludges that involve sudo
> and/or setuid root scripts.
> 
> email is a great workaround!
> 
-- 
Michael H. Warfield (AI4NB) | (770) 985-6132 |  mhw at WittsEnd.com
   /\/\|=mhw=|\/\/          | (678) 463-0932 |
http://www.wittsend.com/mhw/
   NIC whois: MHW9          | An optimist believes we live in the best
of all
 PGP Key: 0xDF1DD471        | possible worlds.  A pessimist is sure of
it!
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