[ale] New Mailing List initiatives for ALE

[Jerald Sheets]

On Sep 27, 2006, at 2:13 AM, aaron wrote:

> First, an appreciation for Jerald (and whoever else is now  
> involved) for
> volunteering to help manage the ALE site and mailing lists.
>

I'll be interested to see how many folks step up when we make a call  
for mod/admin types.  We certainly can't do it all, but I'm  
envisioning some sort of rolling mod team where one set of guys  
doesn't have to do everything all the time, but everyone can share  
the load over time.

> However, it sounds like the discussions about the care and feeding of
> community resources has been circling in a very closed loop to this  
> point,
> so I would ask and expect that you give equal weight to the input  
> from other
> supporting volunteers and list members before implementing any  
> significant
> changes.
>

The entirety of the ALE-NW meeting last week.  A few ex-list members  
over the last couple months.  Various Linux geeks that didn't even  
know the list existed and a test conversation floated with another  
LUG across the country without revealing the question's impetus.  I  
tried to find a wide and varied group to pose the questions to.   
First:  are you a member of ale, why or why not.  Second, if not,  
what caused you to leave.  And third, what could we do as a group to  
convince you to come back.  The ALE-NW meeting was an initial  
floating of a simplified version of my first email yesterday.  The  
reason I have posted these ideas so early was to get precisely the  
feedback I'm getting now to help mold the list personalities into  
their final form, to be posted here and get consensus before "rolling  
it".  Things seem to be going swimmingly thus far.

> In this light, I want to talk about the proposed solutions first  
> and save the
> detailed thoughts on problem analysis and evaluation for follow up.
>
>> ====> ** The Solution **
> [snip]
>> currently, the ale suite of mailing lists is as follows:
>>    [ale]
>>    ...for general Linux questions, discussions and  information.
>>    [unemployed]
>>    ... discussion list for un-employed Techies in the Atlanta Area
>        (and a job opening announce list for potential employers)
>
> There was also...
>     [ale-admin]
>    ...a list for open discussions among active administrative  
> volunteers
> regarding management items like mailing lists and site hosting. The  
> admin
> list has been off-line for quite a while, but If we decide to  
> expand our
> sub-lists, then [ale-admin] should probably be revived as well.
>

Of course, I haven't looked at the rest of the list, as other areas  
of Mailman are still unavailable to me, and we will need to get into  
the shell here soon, which makes our question of whether the site is  
on Chris' personal gear, and if so does he want to continue to make  
that donation to us.  These questions remain unanswered.

>
>
>> [ale]  (ale at ale.org)
>> This is the original mailing list that defined [ale] membership.
>> Discussions should be (at least tangentially) relevant to systems
>> administration, or sysadmin issues in Atlanta.
> [snip]
>
> I'm sorry, but System Administrators, perhaps more so today than
> ever, constitute a special interest sub group within the diverse ALE
> membership.
>

It's a bit funny story, actually.  This is a copy/pasted word- 
replaced version of what I got from the sage group.  Like a goober, I  
didn't expand/expound, and I didn't pay attention.

What can I say?  I was trying to admin a top-15 website at the time.  :)

OF COURSE we would include "Linux admin, enthusiast chat, questions,  
answers, and various ON-TOPIC Linux discussion.  Sorry for the  
oversight.  I also like the idea of keeping the [ale] list as-is and  
creating the [ale-tech] list as has been suggested on several  
occasions.  Again, all this is molding and forming before our eyes.   
After all, in true OSS fashion, I have an itch I'd like to scratch.   
I've formed up a roughly working version and placed it online for  
comments/corrections/submittals.  This is certainly the "process" and  
we are somewhere around v0.983 and approaching a 1.0 release in the  
future.

>
> *(I agree with the many opinions already expressed in this thread  
> that rigidly
> moderated lists are both undesirable and generally disfunctional).
>

Agreed, but it had it's desired ends.  EVERYONE took notice, and  
we're having what is arguably the most participatory ON-TOPIC thread  
in quite some time.  True, I expected some resistance from the Jims  
and a few others, all of whom have weighed in already with the very  
specific answers I knew they'd have when I was writing the original  
post.  Many other cool ideas have emerged, and I'll be getting  
another, modified email posted to the list soon.

>
> The ALE list is not now and has never been a "chat" list. There is  
> (and has
> been, and will continue to be) a lot of valuable information shared  
> here,
> both on topic and, as often as not, off topic. I think the "chat"  
> labelling
> is generally derogatory and innappropriate. Despite the volume of  
> traffic,
> the majority of membership discussions here have never been idle  
> "chatter".
>

If you use sheer metrics over the few years I've been a member,  
there's been considerably more "chat" than "that".   Why "chat" would  
be considered derogatory when referring to those discussing their  
cat, or gas prices, or politics, or pretty much *ANYTHING* not Linux  
related is beyond me a bit.  After all:

chat? [chat] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation verb, chat? 
ted, chat?ting, noun
?verb (used without object)
1.
to converse in a familiar or informal manner.
?noun
2.
informal conversation: We had a pleasant chat.
  i(Dictionary.com)

in no way denoted derogatory connotations or speech.  Perhaps we  
differ on verbiology, but we clearly are saying pretty much the same  
thing.

>
> I'm not sure there is much evidence of the evolving list traffic  
> alienating
> valued contributors, either. Most of the founding members of ALE  
> that I can
> name are still signed onto this list and still contribute to it  
> regularly.
> With the recent single exception (however understandable it may  
> have been), I
> don't recall any instances of someone venting wildly and denouncing  
> the list
> in a firestorm.
>

I can count a handful of folk that have moved on in recent months,  
both new and old, with and without fanfare.  I can even include a new  
member that finds himself a little scared to post questions here, not  
knowing whether he'll get lambasted or assisted.  This came out in  
conversation at ALE-NW.  (you guys are really missing out!  come to  
NW!  Come to NW!)

>
> Well... your "informal polling" never actually came to the list, so  
> it seems
> safe to assume that the opinions were limited to like minded peers  
> in the sys
> admin business.  It is no surprise that they would prefer a mailing  
> list
> tailored to their needs and that their complaints might mirror your  
> own.
> Still, I think a tech list is a great idea! Lets provide it! Lets  
> add a new
> list for sys admins, maybe one called [ale-tech]!
>

Frankly, I was trying to keep the noise from some of the perennial  
list personalities from muddying the waters until the time was  
right.  Consider this posting the official "RFC" posting.  Although  
not originally labeled as such, it still had the specific and desired  
effect originally intended.  I knew I could count on the ALE  
community to come through in this regard...in fact, I counted on it.


>
> My contributions to **evaluation** are pretty well included above.
>
> As to the practicalities of implementation... that doesn't change
> much in any scenario of adding a couple new lists,  and actually
> gets dead simple if we just start offering special interest sub lists
> for interested subcribers and don't try to denigrate [ale] as [ale- 
> chat].
>

Again, I have to reject this assessment even on simple definition.   
We agree to disagree.

>
> And now you can incorporate what the group thinks is best for the  
> group. ;-)
>

See above.

>> Feel free to comment.  I look forward to hearing everyone's thoughts.
>
> Thanks for inviting feedback and listening, and a repeat of the  
> thanks for
> volunteering the effort.

Word, yo.

:D

--j
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...