[ale] good website for novice learning Java ?

[Courtney Thomas]

But, can Python be a substitute for Java and is it functionally as complete, and if yes to these....why has it not
basically surplanted Java  ?

Ignorantly,
Courtney
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Rev. Johnny Healey 
  To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts 
  Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2006 12:18 PM
  Subject: Re: [ale] good website for novice learning Java ?


  Python is the easier language to learn.  I've TA'd a couple of introductory CS courses in Java and can honestly say that it's not a good language to try to start with.  A "hello world" app in java has about 10 magic keywords, the python equivalent has about 1.  

  Also, from most of the code I've seen and written in the two languages, Python code tends to be clean and simple, whereas Java code is more likely to be overarchitected.  I think this reflects the underlying attitudes of the two languages.

  Both languages are well documented and have strong, friendly communities.  The atlanta Java community seems larger than the Python one.

  -Johnny


  On 10/12/06, Courtney Thomas <courtneycthomas at bellsouth.net> wrote:
    Can Python be used as a substitute for Java  ?

    Is the consensus, in your opinion, that Python is preferable/better than Java  ?

    Thank you again,

    Courtney
      ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: Rev. Johnny Healey 
      To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts 
      Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2006 11:15 AM
      Subject: Re: [ale] good website for novice learning Java ?


      It's kind of funny that you mention both Bruce Eckel's Java book and Python, since he seems to have hopped off of the java wagon and onto the Python one.  Last I heard, he's writing a _Thinking_in_Python_ book.

      -Johnny


      On 10/12/06, Charles Shapiro <hooterpincher at gmail.com> wrote: 
        Grit your teeth and buy a book. I'm fond of Bruce Eckel's _Thinking_in_Java_ ( http://mindview.net/Books/TIJ4 ). 
        Download and install the jdk from sun on your machine. Read all the chapters and do all the examples.  
        I made a point of not using an IDE, so I could get a real feel for the language itself and how the naked compiler actually reacted to my errors.  Most of the  stuff in Eckel's book is simple enough to  do from the command line, but  eventually you'll probably want to gain familiarity with  ANT ( http://ant.apache.org/), which is the java equivalent of make(1).  If you  do this early on it may well make your learning experience a little easier.

        BTW if you're a _complete_ novice and this is your first foray into programming or your first foray into Object Oriented programming, I'd recommend python ( http://www.python.org/ ) instead of java. It's got all the crunchy OO goodness of java but lacks many of Java's irritations (e.g. the explicit compile step, Java's wonky handling of the OS interface, Java's distinction between 'primitive types' and 'objects')  Of course, you may be constrained to learn java by --say-- a boss who's offering a carrot or threatening with a stick.

        -- CHS




        On 10/12/06, Courtney Thomas < courtneycthomas at bellsouth.net> wrote: 
          I know Sun has a ton of stuff re:java but I'm lookin' for
          a beginner's site that is more navigable and transparent.

          Thank you once more,
          Courtney
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